Finished the game - my opinion

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Finished the game - my opinion

Postby Darthcast » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:05 pm

I just finished the game... I have to say I'm really glad I've found it, it was a lot of fun.
I first saw this game when I looked for Wizardry 8-videos on youtube and found a video of KoTC, uploaded by Demiath. Fortunately it was showing a battle, because otherwise I wouldn't have watched - I think the graphics are really odd. Not because it's 2D, that's fine, I love 2D games, but the camera perspective is so odd... Fortunately I got used to that after a while.

I also didn't like that almost everything but the combat system was neglected. I agree that traps & locks and even talking skills aren't much fun in most CRPGs, but some games showed that at least talking indeed can be fun (like PS:T).
The story and dialogs were also very poor. I never found Constello and nobody ever mentioned him - I was like WTF? when I saw the ending :mrgreen:. But at least I got to rescue a princess from a dragon's lair. :roll:

In addition, I didn't like the random encounters, on the map as well as in cleared dungeons. 95% percent of the game is already fighting, so why have another 20%? It would have been nice if this could have been turned off in the settings. Fortunately I found out that dungeons stayed empty if a single monster remained there, so I always left one to stop more monsters from spawning.

It's also a pity that the traders have so few items. I didn't find a single dwarven waraxe in the game, so I had to take the feat craft weapons only for this one weapon. And my mage has very few spells...


And now about the positive: The combat system is one of the best I've ever seen! It's just as much fun as the ToEE combat system, maybe even more because the AI is so darn good! If reach was implemented it would definitely be a lot better then ToEE. Why is the AI so good? What's your secret? :D

And the character system is actually better than the D&D counterpart, because you got rid of preparing spells. That's SO annoying!

The user interface is also quite good, especially for an indie game. It could have used more graphics though and be a little more intuitive... but the only thing that really was missing was a "back to start page" link in the help system.

Oh, and the balance of the difficulty is extremely good! Almost every battle was a challenge. :)


BTW: I still have the journal entry "Marcus, a trader, told us that bandits raided Corinth [...]" - this is because I've cleared the Orc Fort before I went to Corinth... a minor bug, I guess. I went to the Orc Fort first because I wanted to take revenge for the attack... I didn't think the "Orcs" played a mayor role in the game, I thought it was just a side quest... It was a a bit confusing when everyone in the fort started to talk about slaves and slaver lords and about Constello being somewhere else because I didn't even knew I was supposed to look for him in the Orc Fort.

PS: I didn't find the area from the demo in the full version. Was it exclusive to the demo?
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Finished the game - my opinion

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Re: Finished the game - my opinion

Postby BlueSalamander » Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:46 am

Why is the AI so good? What's your secret?
No secret, it seems good because the AI is neglected in 95% of games, especially AAA ones.

Darthcast wrote:I also didn't like that almost everything but the combat system was neglected. I agree that traps & locks and even talking skills aren't much fun in most CRPGs, but some games showed that at least talking indeed can be fun (like PS:T).
The story and dialogs were also very poor.
You're entitled to your opinion. I will just say that the story and dialogues were not neglected, and neither were the graphic, music and sound departments. To me, a simple game like Bard's Tale is great, while a game like Planescape is boring. I remember the "sensats sensorial recordings" descriptions in Planescape, that was excruciating. The githzerai, in my opinion again, are one of the most uninteresting races in the D&D world and all the talk about the Circle of Zertimon...

Darthcast wrote:I never found Constello
I guess you went straight to the Slaver Lords. Once you defeat them, he is released. It's all in the quest journal.

I still have the journal entry "Marcus, a trader, told us that bandits raided Corinth [...]"
I'll try to correct that.
'Say there is a chunk of meat. Pirates will have a banquet and eat it! But heroes will share it with other people. I want all the meat!!' - Luffy in One Piece
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Re: Finished the game - my opinion

Postby Darthcast » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:00 am

Oh, sound, I forgot about the sound. The music is awesome, especially the combat theme. Sound effects are also fine.

To me, a simple game like Bard's Tale is great, while a game like Planescape is boring.
Well, maybe it really is a matter of taste. I really liked the sensats' stories. Maybe the Githzerai aren't that interesting, but Dakkon was a great character with a well developed story. The cleric from NWN2 was really annoying though.

Compared to other games that don't place particular emphasis on the story, like Silent Storm or FF Tactics, KoTC is superior. But then again, there was Hammer & Sickle (3. Silent Storm expansion) which had a great story... There are also other games that keep their story in the background, like IWD 2. But if you pay attention to the dialogs, you'll see that the story is actually pretty good. (too bad it was rushed).
Of course it isn't really fair to compare KotC to those games because they were made by huge teams with a big budget. From this point of view it's amazing, after all I consider KotC as one of the best RPGs ever. :)
I guess you went straight to the Slaver Lords. Once you defeat them, he is released. It's all in the quest journal.
Yes, I tried to sneak around the city, found a way to the underground and killed those guys, when I went back up all the bad dudes were gone...


BTW I found another bug, but I guess you already know about it: Sometimes the cursor disappeared and I wasn't able to move, open inventory or do anything. When I pressed ESC, I couldn't click save, so I had to load. It happened the first time when I equipped dragon slaying arrows, and it happened again and again every time I loaded and equipped them again.
I don't know what causes this, but I think it always had something to do with opening inventory etc. at a certain place. It occurred in the demo as well as in the full version.
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Re: Finished the game - my opinion

Postby BlueSalamander » Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:42 pm

Yeah I didn't like the female Githzerai cleric in NWN 2 either. The monotonous babbling about cosmic forces. My character was a cleric though, so not a problem.

Darthcast wrote:I consider KotC as one of the best RPGs ever.
That's a nice thing to say :)

Darthcast wrote:In addition, I didn't like the random encounters, on the map as well as in cleared dungeons. 95% percent of the game is already fighting, so why have another 20%? It would have been nice if this could have been turned off in the settings
Well, I might add an option for that later on. But then, all the dungeons and places will feel really empty after clearing them.

PS: I didn't find the area from the demo in the full version. Was it exclusive to the demo?
Yes, it is a separate module.

Darthcast wrote:Sometimes the cursor disappeared and I wasn't able to move, open inventory or do anything. When I pressed ESC, I couldn't click save, so I had to load
Not 100% sure but it may have been fixed in 1.18.

PS - my idea of a RPG with perfect story and dialogue is Dark Sun 1.
'Say there is a chunk of meat. Pirates will have a banquet and eat it! But heroes will share it with other people. I want all the meat!!' - Luffy in One Piece
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Re: Finished the game - my opinion

Postby Darthcast » Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:33 am

Well, I might add an option for that later on. But then, all the dungeons and places will feel really empty after clearing them.

Well, If a player thinks a dungeon feels empty he could always turn it back on... like he would turn off Max HP when the game becomes too easy.
But I already know what I have to do to keep monsters from spawning, so it's not really important (for me) anymore. It would be great to have that option in KotC 2 though. I guess you would want to leave the random encounters on the map if you plan to add quest related random encounters in KoTC (like in Storm of Zehir). I really liked that in Storm of Zehir, it was fun and it added replay value.

PS - my idea of a RPG with perfect story and dialogue is Dark Sun 1.

I've already read about that game on your page, I guess I really have to try it out now. You didn't mention the sequel though, isn't it worth playing?

Yeah I didn't like the female Githzerai cleric in NWN 2 either. The monotonous babbling about cosmic forces. My character was a cleric though, so not a problem.

I always play DEX based fighters when I can only create a single character... So I was glad when I read about her. And then I was really disappointed, she was one of the most annoying characters I've ever seen (and ugly). Fortunately I found that user made patch to be able to multi-class NPCs, so I could multiclass the paladin to cleric. :)
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Re: Finished the game - my opinion

Postby BlueSalamander » Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:42 pm

If a player thinks a dungeon feels empty he could always turn it back on
Right, it will be a worthy addition.

Darthcast wrote:You didn't mention the sequel though, isn't it worth playing?
Only if you liked the first one. Dark Sun 2 Wake of the Ravager is a bit unstable in places. Somehow the interface and graphics deteriorated a bit when going from the first game to the second. Still a very good game, it just didn't receive as much polish as the first one. You can transfer your characters from the first to the second, but that will remove a lot of the challenge (as you will probably bring a few copies of the +2 life stealing sword El's Drinker along...)

Darthcast wrote:I always play DEX based fighters when I can only create a single character
Cleric worked well in NWN2, very versatile. Less good in Storm of Zehir.
'Say there is a chunk of meat. Pirates will have a banquet and eat it! But heroes will share it with other people. I want all the meat!!' - Luffy in One Piece
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Re: Finished the game - my opinion

Postby Narsham » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:51 am

BlueSalamander wrote:You can transfer your characters from the first to the second, but that will remove a lot of the challenge (as you will probably bring a few copies of the +2 life stealing sword El's Drinker along...)


I remember that well... nothing like having a party with three El's Drinkers for your two fighter-types...
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Re: Finished the game - my opinion

Postby Darthcast » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:42 pm

I'm just writing down which spells you can buy so that I don't pick the ones you can buy at level up... In Wizardry 8 spell choices could be saved and then be chosen at the next level up. That would be useful in this game, too. Having to wait to level up to know which spells can't be bought isn't much fun. :(
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Re: Finished the game - my opinion

Postby Darthcast » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:22 pm

Found a bug: I didn't level my spellcasters up, and one cleric died. I resurrected him but now he has lost all his XP - the knight is level 5 with 13.161 XP, the cleric that died is level 2 with 1450 XP...
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Re: Finished the game - my opinion

Postby some_name » Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:49 am

Not a bug- according to the SRD, upon ressurection, a character loses 1 level and has XP reset to the half-way point of the level they're dropped to. The KotC implementation is actually more lenient than the real rules.
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