Mountain Pass (SPOILERS)

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Re: Mountain Pass (SPOILERS)

Postby VentilatorOfDoom » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:03 pm

If XP or money is what you concerns - don't bother, you will have plenty of both. The game caps at 20 and you will probably end up a millionaire (even with a lot of crafting).
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Re: Mountain Pass (SPOILERS)

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Re: Mountain Pass (SPOILERS)

Postby some_name » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:47 pm

And what's the alternative? Having campfires everywhere? That cripples the game for EVERYONE, instead of just those who made poor character choices. Yes, you can nerf your characters by building them poorly, and get stuck. What would you rather- that the game was like NWN/expansions/sequel/sequel's expansions and impossible to lose, no matter how poorly built your character[s] and no matter how bad your battle tactics?

There's a good reason why powers in D&D are "between rests" instead of "per encounter". The NWN series has never understood this, and it's a large part of the reason why combat in those games is a complete joke.
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Re: Mountain Pass (SPOILERS)

Postby Pod » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:05 am

If these feats are essential, why not just have the classes start with them?
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Re: Mountain Pass (SPOILERS)

Postby some_name » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:16 am

Because it would imbalance the game by giving the Cleric class an extra feat. You wouldn't want to doc them a feat and start them with it either, because if they took a Mul or Half-Elf cleric, they very well might want to use their first-level feat on superior concentration and spend the third level feat on scribe scroll (you could probably last until then pretty easily, as I would expect most parties to hit that before getting to the Orc Fort). As for the wands feat, it's not needed (although VERY helpful), and you can't take it at level 1 anyways.

As mentioned before, the Wizard starts with scribe scroll, which is the only crafting feat he really *needs*. Of course, if you never give your Wizard an additional crafting feat, I can't help but wonder what you're doing with all of the feats he gets. Weapon proficiencies, lol?
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Re: Mountain Pass (SPOILERS)

Postby barghest » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:08 am

some_name wrote:And what's the alternative? Having campfires everywhere? That cripples the game for EVERYONE, instead of just those who made poor character choices. Yes, you can nerf your characters by building them poorly, and get stuck.


You don't need campfires everywhere. They should added where they the hardest encounters are. But it is a poor design choice if you there is a REQUIREMENT to take the crafting feats, and from what I've read once you can craft it makes the game too easy. Crafting/resting are the two biggest unbalanced parts of the game.

VentilatorOfDoom wrote:If XP or money is what you concerns - don't bother, you will have plenty of both. The game caps at 20 and you will probably end up a millionaire (even with a lot of crafting).


Bit late finding that out now. I was saving cash to buy things from traders, and I've never liked wasted XP.

some_name wrote: Of course, if you never give your Wizard an additional crafting feat, I can't help but wonder what you're doing with all of the feats he gets. Weapon proficiencies, lol?


There are plenty of magic feats to pick as well.
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Re: Mountain Pass (SPOILERS)

Postby BlueSalamander » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:18 am

But there's no requirement. Who says you can't win without your cleric taking these feats? Honestly, you can make it with just the wands and scrolls that you find and buy from traders, and your cleric's normal spells per day. But then you have to play very conservatively and, as much as possible, use tactics (including having the wizard scribe a good reserve of his most powerful spells).
A similar argument could be made that you can't win without a cleric, and thus the game should force the player to take a cleric. But then, I'm pretty sure that you can win with 4 wizards (using False Life and Vampiric Touch to recover).
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Re: Mountain Pass (SPOILERS)

Postby VentilatorOfDoom » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:46 am

BlueSalamander wrote:But there's no requirement. Who says you can't win without your cleric taking these feats? Honestly, you can make it with just the wands that you find and buy from traders, and your cleric's normal spells per day. But then you have to play very conservatively and, as much as possible, use tactics (including having the wizard scribe a good reserve of his most powerful spells).
A similar argument could be made that you can't win without a cleric, and thus the game should force the player to take a cleric. But then, I'm pretty sure that you can win with 4 wizards (using False Life and Vampiric Touch to recover).


How would you recover from drained levels or stats then? Which leads us to the question: why do the temples in game not offer services? I would like it if you could buy resurrection/restoration/healing there.
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Re: Mountain Pass (SPOILERS)

Postby BlueSalamander » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:57 am

You wouldn't, that's why I don't advise it to anyone. :-) The point is that it's allowed not to take a cleric, if anyone wants to try. Just like Ironman is allowed.
VentilatorOfDoom wrote:why do the temples in game not offer services?
Good point. Perhaps in a later update. It's something I would definitely add in a sequel, when talking to friendly clerics.
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Re: Mountain Pass (SPOILERS)

Postby barghest » Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:53 pm

BlueSalamander wrote:But there's no requirement. Who says you can't win without your cleric taking these feats? Honestly, you can make it with just the wands that you find and buy from traders, and your cleric's normal spells per day. But then you have to play very conservatively and, as much as possible, use tactics (including having the wizard scribe a good reserve of his most powerful spells).
A similar argument could be made that you can't win without a cleric, and thus the game should force the player to take a cleric. But then, I'm pretty sure that you can win with 4 wizards (using False Life and Vampiric Touch to recover).


Well, I've only ever seen one healing wand offered by a trader, so that isn't an option. Spent most of my healing spells on keeping the players alive during the battle when you drop down a level...

As I said before, I can understand the game being hard, but this is like hitting a brick wall. From what I've ready if you do actually use crafting the game goes from utterly hard to really easy. It is is still IMHO very unbalanced.
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Re: Mountain Pass (SPOILERS)

Postby VentilatorOfDoom » Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:36 pm

I remember at least 3 cure critical wands with 50 charges that you get (the old witch gives you one for instance).
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