Links to comments & reviews

This is the place to talk about KotC, ask for help, and report bugs.

Links to comments & reviews

Postby BlueSalamander » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:46 pm

Here's a thread for all reviews and references to Knights of the Chalice. Not too much thus far since I'd rather fix problems in the game first rather than advertise.

Rampant coyote
http://rampantgames.com/blog/2009/08/rampant-coyote-on-knights-of-chalice.html

Quarter to three forums
http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?p=1845278

Rock, paper, shotgun
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/08/11/our-rpg-cup-overfloweth-knights-of-the-chalice/

Interview and threads at Rpg codex
http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=190, http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=32508, http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=35264

Rpg watch threads
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7822, http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7852#1, http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7231#1, http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5933

Basilisk games
http://www.basiliskgames.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1997

Game banshee (no love there :cry: )
http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/gamebanshee-news-73/knights-of-the-chalice-released-111234.html

Bay 12 games
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=40282.0, http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.p ... ic=28616.0

Colony of gamers
http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showthread.php?t=11124

Popehat forum
http://www.popehat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1891

Shrapnel games
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43749

Giant bomb
http://www.giantbomb.com/knights-of-the-chalice/61-27808/

Game axis
http://forums.gameaxis.com/showthread.php?p=21720211

Stardock
http://forums.stardock.com/361181
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Links to comments & reviews

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Re: Links to comments & reviews

Postby Demiath » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:03 pm

Great list. I'll stop spamming the forum with references now and put anything I find in this thread. Oh, and it was me who started up that Giant Bomb page; it was done very quickly just to make sure the game was present in their database, so there's not much there yet. Since anyone can edit it, I encourage other users to help improve the page if they feel like it. Also, maybe some should write a Wikipedia entry (with a short description and link to official website), since everyone knows that nothing really exists before it is on Wikipedia...

Not too much thus far since I'd rather fix problems in the game first rather than advertise.


An admirable position. [jaded cynicism] Good thing you have a "real" job, though; with that attitude (patch the game first, hype & brag later) you would never get hired by a major developing studio these days [/jaded cynicism]. ;)

Game banshee (no love there )
http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/gameb ... 11234.html


A short thread, but it includes some good examples of that mysterious "I like classic RPGs but don't want to play any game which even remotely resembles classic RPGs" attitude which I've seen a lot in the negative early reactions to KotC. I don't know what to make of that posture, but it seems a needlessly convoluted way of saying that you like modern RPGs more. There's no shame in that, but at least they could be a bit more honest about it.
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Re: Links to comments & reviews

Postby BlueSalamander » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:57 pm

Thank you for starting the Giant Bomb page and for the others postings, Demiath!
'Say there is a chunk of meat. Pirates will have a banquet and eat it! But heroes will share it with other people. I want all the meat!!' - Luffy in One Piece
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Re: Links to comments & reviews

Postby protobob » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:26 pm

Man, those people at Game Banshee would rather see this game done in NWN? They are missing the whole point, the draw of KotC is the awesome gameplay, whereas NWN gameplay is like watching paint dry.
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Re: Links to comments & reviews

Postby BlueSalamander » Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:23 pm

Here is a long forum thread about KOTC at Iron Tower Studios: http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/in ... pic=753.45.

Also, there's another interview coming soon on RPG Watch.
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Re: Links to comments & reviews

Postby Glazunov » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:16 pm

Game banshee (no love there )
http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/gameb ... 11234.html


A short thread, but it includes some good examples of that mysterious "I like classic RPGs but don't want to play any game which even remotely resembles classic RPGs" attitude which I've seen a lot in the negative early reactions to KotC. I don't know what to make of that posture, but it seems a needlessly convoluted way of saying that you like modern RPGs more. There's no shame in that, but at least they could be a bit more honest about it.


I was downloading the 1.15 demo (which definitely looks better) when I saw this comment. So I registered. I hope you don't mind, as I've posted regularly over GameBanshee for years. :) Now...

Of the three people in that thread who commented negatively, all three did so about the graphics, including the choice of font. One of the three also had concerns about copyright infringement, which were (properly) put to rest by a second. (Please note that this was a first-and-only time poster, so it may have been a troll coming over from your forums.) That second was also concerned about clumsy controls. I'm the third--the one who only had problems with the visuals, especially the font, but they were strong enough to keep me from going any further once the game was loaded. (It's only fair to point that out!)

That's it. There's nothing in the thread that remotely takes to task the gameplay of older RPGs, or of newer RPGs that imitate them. Other games that have also deliberately gone for a retro group of features and appearance have received praise on GameBanshee, such as Eschalon I, or been soundly applauded for their look and features prior to release, as with Age of Decadence. So with a great deal of respect for what's been achieved by the developers here--and I truly mean that--I don't think the negative remarks about KotC's visuals mean three folks there dislike retro-RPGs. It simply means they disliked KotC's visuals.

For the record, I loaded up the game, and I think the new font definitely improves legibility. I'm looking forward to trying it out, again.

I hope my remarks here aren't seen as disruptive. I'm not out to challenge either the developers' choices in making their game, or the opinions of those who have strongly enjoyed KotC. (I wanted to correct an impression about how the game is viewed on GameBanshee, and hope that those of us who commented upon the visuals weren't being magically demonized into strawmen, fit for condemnation based on views we never held. Can't speak for the others, of course, but we're really not a bad lot. ;) And some of us who still play the earlier Might and Magic titles, the Magic Candle series, Darklands, and the like, definitely have no prejudices against older games.
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Re: Links to comments & reviews

Postby BlueSalamander » Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:27 pm

Hello Glazunov! I certainly don't want to demonize GameBanshee's forum users. I like that site. The more RPG sites the better.
Thanks for trying the demo, and feel free to post about what you like/don't like.
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Re: Links to comments & reviews

Postby Demiath » Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:44 pm

I don't think the negative remarks about KotC's visuals mean three folks there dislike retro-RPGs. It simply means they disliked KotC's visuals.


Fair enough, but I have to admit that it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Precisely because of GameBanshee's reputation for being a fairly retro-friendly site, I didn't expect to find a discussion of KotC there which focused so heavily on the visuals (including the font) instead of on the game's core gameplay mechanics. My decidedly grumpy reaction should primarily be understood as a reflection of my genuine bafflement over the sentiments expressed not only in that thread but in quite a few similar ones on other forums as well. I was trying to make a more general point while using the GameBanshee thread as just one of many examples, so if you and other longtime contributors to that site feel needlessly singled out I apologize for that.
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Re: Links to comments & reviews

Postby Glazunov » Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:28 pm

Fair enough, but I have to admit that it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Precisely because of GameBanshee's reputation for being a fairly retro-friendly site, I didn't expect to find a discussion of KotC there which focused so heavily on the visuals (including the font) instead of on the game's core gameplay mechanics.


But the visuals are the first gatekeeper to all visual media. I can't speak for anybody but myself, but if I have to read an illegible font that can't be resized or changed on a website I'm visiting, I'll probably leave--unless I've been told on very good information that it contains content important to my life. The same applies to archived newspapers with extremely faded print, books in terrible condition, very old films that have partly decomposed and not been heavily and expensively restored. And mind you, I happen to like some very old films from the 1910's and 1920s: but the quality of the print has to be worth my leisure time.

The game in this suffered in my perspective (and that of two other GameBanshee people, one of whom was probably trolling) from the same defect. The resolution was crude, and the font was nearly unreadable. Now, if somebody I respected told me game XYZ had all the qualities I've ever stated I want in a game, despite its visuals, I might put in the effort to try it out, but nobody who knows me said anything like that about KotC. (And to be frank, it wouldn't be true, since I also cherish NPC and environment interaction, though a good, complex combat system will make up for a fair amount of that.) How could I comment on core gameplay mechanics, when I couldn't read the help file, and disliked the game's lo res a great deal on sight? Please bear in mind, I have no such problems with Darklands, so the issue wasn't retro games. It was simply that the visuals, as I perceived them, got in my way of moving beyond the beginning into the actual gameplay portion of things. And games, after all, aren't supposed to be about struggling through the interface to get to the good stuff. -I'm not suggesting that visuals rule, because that's just not the case: but if I'm supposed to try out a title, it needs to meet my current standards for something I can read quickly, without a headache. I assume this is true for everybody, though all our threshholds differ, and differ over time. My first RPG was Temple of Apshai when it first came out, and I know I'd hate the look of that, today. :D

My decidedly grumpy reaction should primarily be understood as a reflection of my genuine bafflement over the sentiments expressed not only in that thread but in quite a few similar ones on other forums as well. I was trying to make a more general point while using the GameBanshee thread as just one of many examples, so if you and other longtime contributors to that site feel needlessly singled out I apologize for that.


Not a problem. There was certainly nothing personal about KotC in my remarks. I've been trying it out just a bit with the new font, in a window, and it's a good fun. No comments yet, because I haven't played it enough, but the combat engine looks pretty solid. Great to see a spell one of my people shot off actually hit another of them that was standing in the way!
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Re: Links to comments & reviews

Postby Demiath » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:01 pm

The general perspective you're outlining here already comes across very clearly (although less eloquently) in the short GameBanshee thread which I reacted to - namely that graphics and overall presentation values which were seen as pretty good a number of years ago haven't stood the test of time and are so far removed from current standards that they constitute a considerable barrier to entry. And while my own very positive response to KotC's 2D visuals, font, interface and mid tunes may suggest otherwise (especially considering that there's no nostalgia on my part since I didn't grow up playing the kind of classic games you mentioned in your earlier post), I fully realize how utterly subjective and personal these kinds of reactions can be. Like a lot of people on this forum, I appreciate KotC for its presentation as well as its core gameplay mechanics, and I guess we simply differ in taste and preferences from the users who contributed to the GameBanshee thread...

Also, just for the sake of clarity it might be worth pointing out that I'm not in any way affiliated with KotC's developers (or even the playtesting team, for that matter); I'm just a regular fan and my opinions are mine alone.
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