NWN2 Storm of Zehir

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Re: NWN2 Storm of Zehir

Postby BlueSalamander » Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:40 pm

The Herald in SoZ wasn't that tough
It is if you don't have a wizard/sorcerer and don't know about enchanting minor items with AC bonus.

VentilatorOfDoom wrote:Magic items are scarce? You must be kidding.
Mmmm... Where exactly do I say that magic items are scarce? In all Neverwinter games my inventories get completely filled with stuff both magical and non-magical, but mostly useless, and NWN 2 SoZ is no exception.

VentilatorOfDoom wrote:The load times in NWN2 were always instantaneous for me, in the OC and in MotB that is, not in SoZ where they are much longer.
I mention in the review that the SoZ load times are really long.

VentilatorOfDoom wrote:It puzzles me, BS, that you played this sozzy expansion to NWN2 but did not play Mask of the Betrayer
I might play it later on, but some of the things in MotB just don't appeal to me. The single character, the epic levels, the whole business of eating souls, the chronometer bar.
'Say there is a chunk of meat. Pirates will have a banquet and eat it! But heroes will share it with other people. I want all the meat!!' - Luffy in One Piece
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Re: NWN2 Storm of Zehir

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Re: NWN2 Storm of Zehir

Postby VentilatorOfDoom » Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:20 pm

BlueSalamander wrote:Mmmm... Where exactly do I say that magic items are scarce? In all Neverwinter games my inventories get completely filled with stuff both magical and non-magical, but mostly useless, and NWN 2 SoZ is no exception.


I was refering to your NWN2 review not the SoZ one:
Magic items are rare and it’s very difficult to apply enchantments on a weapon or armor. Unlike in the original D&D rules, ...


btw the example with the kid (that all dialogue choices are the same) is not quite true - you can indeed bluff them into thinking it's your daughter with high enough bluff and they'll let her go.

BlueSalamander wrote: I might play it later on, but some of the things in MotB just don't appeal to me. The single character, the epic levels, the whole business of eating souls, the chronometer bar.


- you'll have companion just like in the OC , 4-men party
- are epic levels really that disturbing? , I never understood this
- noone forces you to devour a single soul, although I recommend going aldevouring (normally I always play good, I did so first in MOTB too but the "evil" path in MotB is just awesome, one of the best gaming experiences I had)
- the spiritmeter thing is not that bad, you won't have problems. You just should pick up the spirit feats that make it easy to retain you spirit energy level

Case in point you'll really miss out if you don't play it.
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Re: NWN2 Storm of Zehir

Postby Gragt » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:30 pm

It depends how you want your CRPG. If you want a dungeon crawl with a lot of tactical combat, then MotB isn't the game for you. It focuses on the story — and quite a good one — and has a ton of skillchecks that define how you can solve a quest or the way you can steer a conversation, which can allow different characters to solve a same situation in a different way. There are also a few key events that will change the way some other events will play later, in very opposed ways, and that's quite impressive as well. These might not be apparent on the first playthrough but can easily be seen when you replay it. The spirit-meter is actually one of the best implementation of a time-limit I have seen, because it is tied directly to the story and reflects the evolution of your character.

Let's start by making clear that it isn't a chronometer that you will see decrease just by glancing at it: the meter will only drop in a significant way when a few hours pass at once, for exemple if you travel to another location, not simply change maps in a same area, or rest. You might see it decrease a bit if you spend a lot of time in a same area but it'll be only a triffle, and it should be noted that the meter is paused during conversations. I never felt that I had to rush through the game, and it gave me ample time to explore an area, but it had me consider if it was a good time to travel to another location or if it was a good idea to rest right now. That's quite an elegant way of solving the OC problem of allowing you to rest after pretty much every encounter, and something else than just restricting you to rest at all in a location. If you rest in MotB, you replenish the health of your characters and their spells, but you risk decreasing the stats of your main character until you can satisfy his hunger for spirits. The meter isn't active for the first act of the game and it can be a a bit intimidating when you finally have to deal with it, but to be honest that's to the system's credit of not doing any excessive hand-holding and actually show that your character is having trouble to deal with this curse. It's at first hard to juggle between devouring spirits and balancing your craving level so the meter won't drop too fast, but as you progress through the story you can learn more techniques to satiate your hunger, which will make this task a lot easier and also show that your character is mastering his curse — or turn it into a powerful weapon if you follow a certain path, though you can also miss these skills if you fail some events. Also to be a bit picky, you do not exactly devour souls in the game but spirits, that is ghost-like undeads, animal spirits and the like; you can't devour the soul of a normal living creature, or at least not right away as it is a technique you may acquire during the game. So at first you are restricted in what you can use to satiate your hunger, which means that you just can't go devouring every spirit you meet because there is a limited supply.

Combat is the weak point of the game, just like many other RT CRPG before it. It's not bad, but it's not good either, though a few encounters can be challenging and fun, and at least you need to be conservative with spells because you just can't rest anytime you want, which gives a bit of needed challenge. Epic levels aren't that great, since your characters are already powerful and only gets overpowering, though it never gets old to fry enemies with different spells. The epic spells in particular can quickly speed up combat, and I let you decide whether or not this is a good thing.

There, should give you a fair idea if you'll enjoy the game or not.
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Re: NWN2 Storm of Zehir

Postby Fezzik » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:26 am

Here's Vault Dweller's review of MotB.
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Re: NWN2 Storm of Zehir

Postby BlueSalamander » Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:23 am

VentilatorOfDoom wrote:I was refering to your NWN2 review not the SoZ one:
Magic items are rare and it’s very difficult to apply enchantments on a weapon or armor. Unlike in the original D&D rules, ...
I guess I meant magic weapons. I remember that you can find some +1 and a few +2 weapons, not of your chosen type. Sure you will find coins of life, scrolls, potions, jewels, essences & creature parts, etc, but nothing really useful. Also, compared to NWN 1, which had scrolls and potions in every pot and barrel, NWN 2 is a desert.

VentilatorOfDoom wrote:btw the example with the kid (that all dialogue choices are the same) is not quite true
Sure the game may have some hidden mechanics on how to treat 'bluff', 'lie', etc. But look, the choices are:
-Stop, you don't know if she's done anything.
-She was just running.
-Unhand my daughter.
What do all these mean? Only one thing: "let her go". That means they will let her go, either because I intimidated them or because I convinced them. In fact, even if I choose "say nothing", I think they will still let her go. And you tell me the dialogue choices are not all the same? Why can't I say the most logical thing, ask the girl to show the contents of her pockets? Why do I have to defend her, when I don't even know if she's innocent or not?

MotB may be worth trying, if only to enjoy the dialogue-choice ramifications.
'Say there is a chunk of meat. Pirates will have a banquet and eat it! But heroes will share it with other people. I want all the meat!!' - Luffy in One Piece
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Re: NWN2 Storm of Zehir

Postby VentilatorOfDoom » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:31 am

I guess I meant magic weapons. I remember that you can find some +1 and a few +2 weapons, not of your chosen type. Sure you will find coins of life, scrolls, potions, jewels, essences & creature parts, etc, but nothing really useful. Also, compared to NWN 1, which had scrolls and potions in every pot and barrel, NWN 2 is a desert.

No, your memory plays tricks on you or maybe you're confusing the Original Campaign which I was refering to with SOZ.
NWN2 is full of magic weapons. Your first named artifact weapon you'll find in the first cave after leaving the village being lvl4.

What do all these mean? Only one thing: "let her go". That means they will let her go, either because I intimidated them or because I convinced them. In fact, even if I choose "say nothing", I think they will still let her go. And you tell me the dialogue choices are not all the same? Why can't I say the most logical thing, ask the girl to show the contents of her pockets? Why do I have to defend her, when I don't even know if she's innocent or not?


Well if you see it this way - yes all is the same. If you don't act or fail then Wulf will start his show and get her freed.

MotB may be worth trying, if only to enjoy the dialogue-choice ramifications.


You should try it, trust me on this. It's not very expensive nowadays, maybe 10€ at Amazon.
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Re: NWN2 Storm of Zehir

Postby BlueSalamander » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:36 pm

VentilatorOfDoom wrote:
I guess I meant magic weapons. I remember that you can find some +1 and a few +2 weapons, not of your chosen type. Sure you will find coins of life, scrolls, potions, jewels, essences & creature parts, etc, but nothing really useful. Also, compared to NWN 1, which had scrolls and potions in every pot and barrel, NWN 2 is a desert.
No, your memory plays tricks on you or maybe you're confusing the Original Campaign which I was refering to with SOZ.NWN2 is full of magic weapons. Your first named artifact weapon you'll find in the first cave after leaving the village being lvl4.
Yeah it's a while now since I played NWN 2 OC. I don't remember finding good weapons for my character. The max was +3. I had to craft to get my +5 flaming holy longsword.
'Say there is a chunk of meat. Pirates will have a banquet and eat it! But heroes will share it with other people. I want all the meat!!' - Luffy in One Piece
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Re: NWN2 Storm of Zehir

Postby Darthcast » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:19 pm

Excellent review. I've found this before I played SoZ or heard about KoTC when I was looking for information about SoZ. Too bad I didn't check out the rest of the forum/site, then I would have played KoTC earlier. :D

My opinion about SoZ: The best word to describe it is "a lot of potential". It's definitely a lot of fun, but why did they only include one real dungeon in the whole game? The last combat is one of the best I've ever seen in an BG style RPG. But I had a "normal" party, I guess it really would have been tough with few player characters or an uncommon party.
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Re: NWN2 Storm of Zehir

Postby Archangel » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:33 pm

I finished the last battle just with a wizard. lvl 24 wizard, but still :)
And I didn't cast a single Epic spell.
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