KotC 2 Update

[BlueSalamander]

what is Death Knight?

Basically a high-BAB warrior with smite (any alignment), sneak attack and a few other goodies.

I thought you weren't doing Rogue

Rogue is just a politically-correct name for the Assassin.

do you plan to include potions?

Yes, at least the potions of cure light/moderate/serious/critical, heroism and haste.

Rogues, what about them?

They will have sneak attacks, movement through enemies and arcane spells.

Sorcerer? Can you reveal some specifics? Does he function like a wizard except with access to arcane and divine spells? Sounds p. overpowered

Yes. We can discuss the balance later on.

have you settled on a graphic style/prospective yet?

The graphic style is top-down 2D.

[mortmal]

Come on! a screenshot ! a screenshot! just some alpha version picture would do so we could see the difference and that famous top down view.

[BlueSalamander]

The picture there http://www.heroicfantasygames.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=213&start=20#p2483 is still a valid example of what I'm aiming at.
It's too early to talk about actual screenshots.

[DonaldDuck]

The picture there http://www.heroicfantasygames.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=213&start=20#p2483 is still a valid example of what I'm aiming at.
It's too early to talk about actual screenshots.

I hate to be crying about graphics, but I kind of hope you don't go with that type of gameboard look.
I was perfectly fine with retro charm of KOTC, and I could care less about animations, but I'd really prefer some kind of simple sprites for party/monsters rather then just hexes with portraits on them,
That screenshot seems like it would be a step backward to me, it doesn't have that classic crpg feel, nor any atmosphere, just looks like a gameboard.
Not that I still wouldn't be intersted in KOTC 2, but I figured I'd give you that feedback. I guess I was hoping for something at least like what's in this screenshot.

example

121.jpg (42.45 KiB) Viewed 31067 times

But maybe that's just me, what does the rest of you think about the gameboard look?

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I'd prefer the old look (possibly improved upon with higher resolution sprites etc) but don't mind it much either way.

[Flop]

But maybe that's just me, what does the rest of you think about the gameboard look?

I agree with you completely. Of course, that's based on that one picture. I'm looking forward to seeing some actual screenshots.

[Luminon]

I hate to be crying about graphics, but I kind of hope you don't go with that type of gameboard look.
...
But maybe that's just me, what does the rest of you think about the gameboard look?

I couldn't agree more. I see this board game look as a big step backwards into the wooden age of desk games. What comes next, a built-in utility to print DnD paper sheets on our printer, so we can keep track of our inventory and calculations manually?

This is supposed to be a combat game, not chess. Some people would be surprised, how much a "realism" matters in these turn-based games. It gives me immense satisfaction to see and *feel* details like that enemies can be thrown back and forth by strong hits, they can hit wall (or their comrade) and the wall will be stained red. (even the ASCII games since the times of ADOM had it, I think) It is satisfying to massacre figures, not abstract square portraits, same every time. That way there is some space left for fantasy, to fill in the details.
These are some of reasons why I played Helherron three times all over. The author managed to capture the spirit of violence into extremely simple graphics (no animation, only a change of sprite) and sounds, in a turn-based game. There are details that bring satisfaction thanks to our primordial instincts. Like a size of blood or slime gush that corresponds to the amount of damage incurred per hit. A genial move which I came to appreciate when I got a holy weapon and tried it on some zombies. The cavern ceiling would be painted all over, I swear. Much more satisfying that seeing only a number in corner of the screen.

By the way, what is that game on screenshot up there? It looks worse than KotC 1, but I would prefer such graphics over a sterile board game graphics.

[DonaldDuck]

By the way, what is that game on screenshot up there? It looks worse than KotC 1, but I would prefer such graphics over a sterile board game graphics.

It's called 'War Along the Mohawk', it's a party based real time rts/rpg. Not a bad game, got it when I was teen as a present, liked it back then but probably not worth playing today. The reason I used it as an example is because it has a true top down view (which is what Blue seems to want to do with KOTC 2) and functional graphics. Here's the link if you'd like more info about the game: http://www.mobygames.com/game/war-along-the-mohawk

[BlueSalamander]

Thank you for the feedback all.



On this picture you can see it's not a straight top down perspective. Otherwise we couldn't see the windows on the house, we would see only the roof.

It's quite nice. However:

- all the sprites look very tiny and you can hardly see anything apart from the top of their helmet or hat
- each sprite had to been drawn in four directions, as far as I can see
(with 9 player races, 9x4 pictures would need drawing just for the player characters, and that's without animation or gender differentiation)
- all the sprites have to be drawn in that not-quite-straight perspective

With a flat portrait:

- you can differentiate monsters by their face, for example an orc leader could have an eye patch and big teeth
- no need to draw in four directions, so a big sprite is ready to use after drawing it just once, and there can be more variety in the enemies
- no need to pay attention to whether the sprite respects the background's perspective

To me, the most important things are the tactics, the level of challenge, and interesting dialogues. That's why I love ADOM even though all the monsters in that game are represented with a coloured letter. Switching to flat portraits (tokens) can be seen as a step backward but it has clear advantages (big monsters & more variety in monsters).

[SilentLion]

Hi - my first post, first of all I'd like to say that I really enjoyed KotC and am looking forward to your next game. I grew up on the Gold Box games so there was a huge nostalgia-factor for me, plus the tactical depth of the game was amazing.

On KotC2 graphics: I really liked the graphics of the first game, but I understand your reasons for switching to the flat portrait approach. To include a "spirit of violence" Luminon mentioned, the sprites could shake a little or a lot depending on the amount of damage inflicted. Displaying the damage amount in a splash of blood/slime of which the size is proportional to how big the hit was also helps (this may have already been implemented in KotC1, I don't remember right now). The sprites could get bloodied (if one image layer of blood can be nicely applied to all sprites of the same size), maybe even more bloodied depending on how bad a shape they are in.

Did you choose your artist yet? In terms of atmosphere a lot depends on the graphic style of the portraits in my opinion. (I liked the ones on the screenshot.)