Let's have a Monk!

Here's the place to talk about the features you would like to see in a sequel to KotC.

Re: Let's have a Monk!

Postby Archangel » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:22 pm

Actually something similar was done in Pathfinder for monks. Their basic class feature, Stunning Fist gets improved with levels. Monk can choose to instead of stunning for 1 round apply different effects for more rounds. At high levels they can even Paralyze.

Also if the unarmed strike is going to be the only weapon to use, I suggest giving monks full BAB with Flurry (again like pathfinder).
Also Since the monk needs amulet of might fist and bracers of armor to survive and the game does not support Wonderous Items with multiple effects Monks will sorely lack magic items slots which will make them almost useless at high levels. So I suggest letting monks equip their Might Fists in their weapon slot (call it wraps) so they can still have the neck empty for Con and bracers empty for Dex or Bracers of Armor.
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Re: Let's have a Monk!

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Re: Let's have a Monk!

Postby BlueSalamander » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:31 pm

Examples: A hit could be: Eye strike comparable to a Blind spell, Throat strike comparable to a Mute spell, "solar plexus" strike comparable to a Stun spell. Ear palming/boxing for a Deaf condition. And so on. Things that MIGHT be possible via spellcasting, but more than likely impossible to have happen via weaponry.

Aside from the fist eventually turning Adamantine or some such, I like the idea of taking up Ring slots(maybe Gloves/Boots to some degree but eh...) so as to impart roughly functional Silver and Cold Iron qualites to the hits as applicable.

Very good stuff, thank you. That does make the class appealing. He could also be good at tripping and disarming.

Archangel wrote:Also if the unarmed strike is going to be the only weapon to use, I suggest giving monks full BAB with Flurry (again like pathfinder).
Sounds good (especially with the monk's cleric-like base attack bonus), but why did the player's handbook give a penalty in the first place?
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Re: Let's have a Monk!

Postby getter77 » Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:29 pm

BlueSalamander wrote:
Examples: A hit could be: Eye strike comparable to a Blind spell, Throat strike comparable to a Mute spell, "solar plexus" strike comparable to a Stun spell. Ear palming/boxing for a Deaf condition. And so on. Things that MIGHT be possible via spellcasting, but more than likely impossible to have happen via weaponry.

Aside from the fist eventually turning Adamantine or some such, I like the idea of taking up Ring slots(maybe Gloves/Boots to some degree but eh...) so as to impart roughly functional Silver and Cold Iron qualites to the hits as applicable.

Very good stuff, thank you. That does make the class appealing. He could also be good at tripping and disarming.

Archangel wrote:Also if the unarmed strike is going to be the only weapon to use, I suggest giving monks full BAB with Flurry (again like pathfinder).
Sounds good (especially with the monk's cleric-like base attack bonus), but why did the player's handbook give a penalty in the first place?


Whew, glad to see my unfortunately took-a-long-time-to-finally-write Monk notions do, in fact, hold some appeal. Awesome. Tripping and disarming...yep those would definitely work too. In terms of nifty feat selections, a possibility like having a "breaking" progression to serve a logical effect depending...like Wood/Stone/etc since all the weapon feats and such won't really make any sense at all---so as to add in a thematic strength against fighting any monstrous Trees or Stone Golems and the like. At any rate, I'm sure other flavorful and unique skills can be drummed up proper once we get all other classes locked down in regards to their appearance outright and general constitution.
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Re: Let's have a Monk!

Postby Narsham » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:53 pm

BlueSalamander wrote:
Archangel wrote:Also if the unarmed strike is going to be the only weapon to use, I suggest giving monks full BAB with Flurry (again like pathfinder).
Sounds good (especially with the monk's cleric-like base attack bonus), but why did the player's handbook give a penalty in the first place?


I suspect it was for balance purposes at low level. When everyone has a +0 to +4 attack, getting a second attack is a tremendous bonus, so having the minus to hit for each attack keeps Monks from outpacing Fighters at the very low levels of play.

At the high end, the slower BAB progression makes the Flurry penalty seem less necessary.

If you're re-balancing the class, dropping the penalty might make sense. Just don't undervalue the ability to take a full-attack action while grappling an opponent with an attack that does more than 1d6 base damage and can stack most of the bonuses you'd expect from an enchanted weapon.
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Re: Let's have a Monk!

Postby 4li3n » Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:02 pm

At the high end, the slower BAB progression makes the Flurry penalty seem less necessary.


Probably why the penalty disappears at level 9 (and is reduced to -1 at 5th): http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/monk.htm#tableTheMonk

And Pathfinder doesn't do aways with it completly, it just reduces it to -1 and get rid of it at lvl 5: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/basic-classes/monk

Also, in NWN Empty Body gave them concealment (50% enemy miss chance) instead of etherealness... that was nice.
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Re: Let's have a Monk!

Postby Archangel » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:04 pm

Actually pathfinder gives monks full bab while using flurry, but also counts flurry as two-weapon fighting and gives -2 penalty on all attacks because of that.
So basically monk by lvl 20 have 7 attacks (like having all two-weapon fighting feats) and its bab is considered to be 20. Compared to a 3.5e monk pathfinder monk has a total gain of +3 to all attacks while using flurry at lvl 20. Not a huge boost but a needed one because I heard many players calling 3.5e Flurry a Flurry of Misses :)

Monks are also a class that together with paladins are most ability dependent, but also profit most from high ability scores in multiple abilities.
With the system of rolling for stats here Monks might be more overpowered then other classes :)


Also their trademark ability is Stunning Fist and that needs to be in the game.
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Re: Let's have a Monk!

Postby 4li3n » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:17 pm

Yeah, but in the beginning it's similar enough... (of course he uses his level instead of his bab when determining the flurrys attack bonus) the idea being that they didn't remove it completely (and that eventually 3.5 did away with the penalty too).
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Re: Let's have a Monk!

Postby MonkeyLancer » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:29 am

Although it shouldn't be that surprising, I was blown away how much medieval unarmed combat is very similar to modern has a distinctively modern appearance to it.
http://www.thortrains.com/getright/dril ... rmed1.html
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