Player Races

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Player Races

Postby BlueSalamander » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:59 pm

Here's what I've been thinking for races in KotC 2:

Human: one extra feat at the beginning. Advantage: Extra Feat.

Half-Orc: DEX -2, STR +2, Toughness. Advantage: High Strength.

Dwarf: CON +2, WIS -2, Speed 20, +2 Dodge bonus to AC against melee attacks from large creatures or bigger. Advantage: High Hit Points.

High Elf: DEX +2, CON -2, immunity to sleep. Advantage: High Dexterity.

Grey Elf: STR -2, DEX +2, CON -2, INT +2, immunity to sleep. Advantage: High Intelligence.

Halfling: STR -2, DEX +2, Size Small (less damage from weapons, +1 size bonus to all attack rolls and to AC), Speed 20, +2 bonus to all saving throws. Advantage: High Saving Throws.

Kobold: STR -2, DEX +2, CON -2, Size Small, Speed 30, +2 Natural Armor bonus to AC. Advantage: High Armor Class.

Thri-Kreen: STR -2, DEX +2, INT -2, WIS +2, CHA -2, Speed 40, Can’t wear armour, Can wield up to 4 weapons, +3 Natural Armor bonus to AC, Paralyzing bite from level 7. Advantage: Number of Attacks.

Half-Giant: STR +4, DEX -6, CON +2, INT -4, WIS -4, CHA -2. Size Large (more damage from weapons, -1 size bonus to all attack rolls and to AC), Speed 20. Advantage: High Damage.

Some issues that could be discussed:
Are the half-giant and thri-kreen irremediably unbalanced?
Should thri-kreens be prohibited from wearing cloaks, rings, helms, boots, belts and bracers too?
Is kobold a good idea for a character class?
Should halflings have a wisdom bonus?
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Re: Player Races

Postby getter77 » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:44 pm

Hmm...tying into your Monk link that I'll need to look at in more detail, is there a list somewhere out of all the Races possible based on what's part of the stock or is this the entire possible range of it to be potentially thinned out and tweaked from here?
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Re: Player Races

Postby Narsham » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:58 pm

In KotC 1, my two-weapon Knight at 14th level receives 7 attacks a round (3 per hand plus one for speed/haste).

How will your thri-kreen handle these feats? 8 attacks a round (bite plus 7 attacks from two two-handed weapons) will be ugly enough; if you allow every off-hand to benefit from the two-weapon feats, you'd have a character with 13 attacks per round. I'd say that's a bit much. Even if you limit their item slots, highly enchanted weapons will boost their damage through the roof. Assuming you don't change the several design choices which boost the effects of damage reduction, they'd also have an edge in fighting monsters with DR as they could be wielding one of every type of weapon...

The Half-Giant balances better, I think. So long as you don't implement reach, I'd say they should get along fine, although since you handle crits in a non-standard way the higher damage dice from the large weapons will make Half-Giant crits more effective compared with other characters.

A potential additional balancing factor for the Half-Giant would be to make them suffer extra damage from Holy/Unholy/Anarchic/Axiomatic weapons regardless of their alignments.
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Re: Player Races

Postby Darthcast » Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:22 am

Is kobold a good idea for a character class?

Yes, definitely!! Or make lizardmen or goblins. :D Those three are my favorite D&D races...
Oh, and the goblins should be able to summon a worg and ride it into battle. Image

Also, please, I mean pretty please, don't give dwarves a wisdom penalty. I'd love to play a dwarven cleric. If anything give them a wisdom bonus. :D
Why did only Wizardry 8 get the dwarves right? :? Wisdom and Constitution Bonus, weak Intelligence and Dexterity, damage resistance. All a dwarf would ever wish for.
I'd also love to see some kind of "Dwarven Defender", but I don't think this qualifies for a class. But maybe dwarves could get something like "Defensive Stance" instead of an HP/DR bonus?
The dwarven defender can become a bastion of defense. He cannot move from the spot he's defending, but he gains +2 Strength, +4 Constitution, and a +2 bonus to all saves. A 1st-level dwarven defender can use this ability 1/day. He gains an additional use every two levels beyond 1st.


And I think Thri-Kreen with with 4 attacks would be impossible to balance. Even if you forbid all equipment but weapons, you could never allow Thri-Kreen monks (or any DEX-based fighter class).

Oh, and I'd rather see more classes (and feats) instead of races. Many different classes add replay value, many races do not...
Last edited by Darthcast on Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Player Races

Postby waltshooter » Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:49 am

Another question on the Thri-Kreen: If they can wield 4 weapons (I imagine from having 4 sets of arms) - would that allow them to wield two 2-handed weapons, or one 2-handed + two 1-handed? Would a Thri-Kreen wizard/cleric be able to wield multiple weapons and still cast? Does "no armor" mean no cloaks, rings, amulets as well? I can understand no armor - breastplates, chain mail, etc - since they have an exoskeleton.

One improvement I'd like to see over the original ... better graphics for the female characters. I mean, they currently look like they have beards. :lol:
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Re: Player Races

Postby Darthcast » Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:06 am

LOL, yeah. The first thing I thought of when I read the Tri-Kreen outline was having a Tri-Kreen warrior with the feat monkey grip and 4 two-handed weapons. :mrgreen:
After that, I thought about creating one with 4 tower shields. :D

One improvement I'd like to see over the original ... better graphics for the female characters.

I'd like to see the male cleric changed, the helmet looks like grey, long hair. :|
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Re: Player Races

Postby Darkion » Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:30 am

Half-Orc: DEX -2, STR +2, Toughness. Advantage: High Strength.


I can't recall playing an Orc or Half-Orc in any RPG, I always shun them, usually because of their abysmal Charisma scores. I did play around with Maximus in Heroes of Might and Magic I, but that's a game of a different color. Anyway, my point is that I don't care one way or another as I won't use them, but some gamers just love their extra Strength.

Dwarf: CON +2, WIS -2, Speed 20, +2 Dodge bonus to AC against melee attacks from large creatures or bigger. Advantage: High Hit Points.


No! Really? Minus 2 Wisdom rather than -2 Dexterity? Why?

High Elf: DEX +2, CON -2, immunity to sleep. Advantage: High Dexterity.

Grey Elf: STR -2, DEX +2, CON -2, INT +2, immunity to sleep. Advantage: High Intelligence.


Interesting, so two elf flavors but no Half-Elf, I can live with that.

Halfling: STR -2, DEX +2, Size Small (less damage from weapons, +1 size bonus to all attack rolls and to AC), Speed 20, +2 bonus to all saving throws. Advantage: High Saving Throws.


Yes, my favorite little guy, even If I'm no fan of Tolkien.

Kobold: STR -2, DEX +2, CON -2, Size Small, Speed 30, +2 Natural Armor bonus to AC. Advantage: High Armor Class.


Yap! Yap! I mean... whatever, I guess that furry lovers must have their choices too. :roll:
Me? I would prefer gnomes.

Thri-Kreen: STR -2, DEX +2, INT -2, WIS +2, CHA -2, Speed 40, Can’t wear armour, Can wield up to 4 weapons, +3 Natural Armor bonus to AC, Paralyzing bite from level 7. Advantage: Number of Attacks.

Half-Giant: STR +4, DEX -6, CON +2, INT -4, WIS -4, CHA -2. Size Large (more damage from weapons, -1 size bonus to all attack rolls and to AC), Speed 20. Advantage: High Damage.


Half-Giants and Thri-Keens worked well in the Dark Sun games, so I'm sure that you can make it work in the KotC world. Half Giants have extra Strength, but it's countered by the Dexterity penalty and lower Speed/Wisdom and Charisma. Thri-Keens are more tricky, but again, I would stick to the way they were used in Dark Sun, having them using chatkchas or similar weapons and maybe restricting them to spears or two-handed weapons to minimize inbalanced multiple attacks per round. Following that reasoning, they should not be able to wear cloaks, belts, boots, bracers, helms or rings due to their non-human bodies. Armor should be restricted to Padded/Leather or Thri-Keen specific ones.

Darthcast wrote:I'd like to see the male cleric changed, the helmet looks like grey, long hair.


Ugh, ixnay on this for me. The male Cleric sprite is my favorite one, mainly because of the helmet. Maybe there's a possibility of having more than one sprite per class to better customize your characters' appearance?
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Re: Player Races

Postby screeg » Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:29 pm

Would the Kobold be the old school, dog-headed Kobold? Because I don't think the latter day mini-lizardman Kobold is an improvement. Ever played the Phatasie games? They had a crazy selection of races, including Pixies, Minotaurs, Ogres, etc., but those off-standard races could only be thieves or fighters.

Regarding Thri-Kreen, how about starting them off with two attacks, a penalty for the offhanded one, and making them use a Feat to get more later on? Maybe they are too lopsided... The Half-Giant sounds good. Would he be able to wield an otherwise unavailable, larger category of weapons?

What I would like to see with varied races is different dialogue options or responses in a few situations: you can parley with a group of Orcs if you have a Half-Orc in your party, for example.
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Re: Player Races

Postby MonkeyLancer » Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:35 pm

Wow! :D

I hope you will still keep the Muls and Half-Elves!

For Thri-Keen it makes sense to me to give the second pair of arms a penalty as they often are depicted being as being secondary to their 'main' arms. Anatomically it also makes sense to prohibit all the very humanoid items, but I can't seem to wrap my head around why wouldn't they be able to wear a cloak except for balance issues.

Err.. I'm kinda sitting on the fence whether I prefer the new gecko-y kobolds over the old dog-headed with horns kobolds, But I do think they would be a cool small sized alternative to halflings.
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Re: Player Races

Postby Darkion » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:30 pm

MonkeyLancer wrote: Anatomically it also makes sense to prohibit all the very humanoid items, but I can't seem to wrap my head around why wouldn't they be able to wear a cloak except for balance issues.


Oh no? Ask any Thri-Keen how easy it is to fight with a cloak constantly getting tangled in their extra arms. ;)
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