Quest items/rewards

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Quest items/rewards

Postby Narsham » Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:30 pm

One idea I'd like to push for in KotC 2 would be more quest rewards like the Chalice quest reward in KotC, as well as more unique items with powers or abilities which can't be enchanted into a regular item.

Almost every single piece of equipment for my party came from item enchantment after 5th level. By the end of the Slavers section, everyone in the group had +3 cloaks of resistance (or a CoD for the wizard), +6 stat boost items for their primary stats and weapons and armor in the +5 total enchantment range. The rest of the game, my equipment kept well ahead of the best loot that we were receiving. (I might add that I finished the game with over 2 million GP left, as well.)

I see no way to prevent that from happening, but it does diminish the thrill of getting treasure or quest rewards when that named weapon you just seized is 2-3 enchantment pluses behind your own equipment.

So why not incorporate some powers, effects or bonuses onto magic items which are NOT part of the regular enchantment system? Call them minor artifacts if you want, or simply say that some enchantments have special requirements. If I find Excalibur and it's just a +5 Holy Axiomatic sword, odds are good it's just barely competing with my current equipment. If I find Excalibur and it's a +5 Holy sword that does +2d6 against demons and grants DR 5/--, it becomes special and I'd have to think long and hard about whether to swap it in for my current enchanted equipment, even if my knight is specialized in a different kind of weapon.

3.5 is so modular, you could drop almost any power or ability on an item and make it different from the "regular" enchanted stuff.
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Quest items/rewards

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Re: Quest items/rewards

Postby getter77 » Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:41 am

I also think many "unorthodox" things along these lines is a good direction to go in, already there were a few such instances in KoTC if you paid special attention to the enemy feat pages. Good for questing/looting to have a place comparable to crafting/forging.

One nifty way to do both might be "Summon fights" somehow or another against some especially nifty Dancing/Ego weaponry, "prove your mettle" as it were.
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Re: Quest items/rewards

Postby VentilatorOfDoom » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:49 pm

I concur, there should be worthwhile loot that can't be replicated by crafting. Makes finding treasure fun. An +6 INT circlet with a bonus of +1 to spell DC, stuff like that. If your own equipment is better than what you'll find on the most powerful foes - that kind of takes the excitment out of the looting bizness.
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Re: Quest items/rewards

Postby crpgnut » Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:34 pm

I hugely agree with this! I was thinking that crafting should be limited to +3 for max and that rods and staves should be found in the game with the higher level spells on them. A staff of Raising Dead with 15 charges or a Rod of True Resurrection with 5 charges. These are things my crafters can't make and would be exciting to find. My Cleric would have killed for a staff or two of Flamestrike.
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Re: Quest items/rewards

Postby Narsham » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:04 pm

I don't support limiting crafting to the +3 level for weapons. That either leaves you relying on finding your super-specialized Halberd-fighter a +5 Halberd later in the game, or requires the game to make a "guess" about what weapons your fighters are using and spawn loot which matches it. I prefer having the flexibility. I suppose a new spell like the Enlarge/Reduce weapon spell which allows you to change a weapon's type so long as it meets enchantment requirements (like bludgeoning only) might solve that problem and would have the extra benefit of allowing you to keep that cool new weapon even if your fighter-types can't use it.

I do support limiting some of the other enchantments, or perhaps adding new enchantments only available on special weapons. I know a "penetrates all DR" enchantment alone would be extremely worthwhile. There's ample other options for special enchantments. Armor with a 1d6 Acid Shield effect, for example, would be highly valuable...
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Re: Quest items/rewards

Postby BlueSalamander » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:08 pm

Narsham wrote:super-specialized Halberd-fighter
I'm thinking to associate weapon feats with weapon groups this time (such as weapon focus: axe would work for hand axe, battle axe and greataxe).

I do support limiting some of the other enchantments, or perhaps adding new enchantments only available on special weapons. I know a "penetrates all DR" enchantment alone would be extremely worthwhile. There's ample other options for special enchantments. Armor with a 1d6 Acid Shield effect, for example, would be highly valuable...
Good ideas. Or a life drain (Darksun El's Drinker), poison (fortitude save or take 30 damage). The problem is there's a risk to unbalance the rest of the game, as with TOEE's answering weapons.

crpgnut wrote:rods and staves should be found in the game with the higher level spells on them.
Could be done, though wands are supposed to stop at level 4.
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Re: Quest items/rewards

Postby crpgnut » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:46 am

agreed about wands, Blue-Sal. I don't think that rods and staves should be common, but maybe after defeating a powerful wizard or cleric they could be part of the stash. I'm with the others on adding treasure types that can't be crafted. It's a weakness in this game, but it could be addressed in a patch or just added to the next game. Speaking of which, when are you going to start promoting the game more heavily? I'm thinking the majority of the niche gamer that will like this type of game have found it already. I'm curious as to how many more sales will come from advertising. It might be worthwhile, if you can find the right places. I'd suggest Good Old Games as a definite site to advertise on and Steam might be good as well. Anywhere that still sells older games might be useful, as long as the cost is free or minimal. I'll be wishing you good luck because I found this game to be worth the measly $25 or so that you charged and want to see the sequel. There are hundreds of one-off game developers out there but very few folks who make more than 2-3.
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Re: Quest items/rewards

Postby Darthcast » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:15 am

Wow, lots of good ideas! :)

BlueSalamander wrote:I'm thinking to associate weapon feats with weapon groups this time (such as weapon focus: axe would work for hand axe, battle axe and greataxe).

Having feats for every single weapon is another annoying D&D feature imo... Great to hear you're planning to use weapon groups. BTW do you want to keep the wizard/cleric system (no preparing spells)? Hope you do. :)
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Re: Quest items/rewards

Postby some_name » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:55 am

Ugh, please don't use weapon groups. It's far smarter to have artifact weapons with some special property (such as +6 for only 5 "enchantment points" or +4d6 damage for only 4 "enchantment points") for the more obscure Martial weapons (that is, not Longsword, Greatsword, Greataxe, Halberd, and Longbow) and the exotic weapons (Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe). Having to decide whether you use a better weapon that you're not quite as good with is an interesting decision.

I would certainly avoid putting a "bypass all DR" sword in the game; that would be ludicrously good. Poison seems ok.
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Re: Quest items/rewards

Postby screeg » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:49 pm

crpgnut wrote:I hugely agree with this! I was thinking that crafting should be limited to +3 for max and that rods and staves should be found in the game with the higher level spells on them. A staff of Raising Dead with 15 charges or a Rod of True Resurrection with 5 charges. These are things my crafters can't make and would be exciting to find. My Cleric would have killed for a staff or two of Flamestrike.

Yes, this would make quest rewards FAR more interesting. I wouldn't mind a lower limit on crafting, but these artifacts should be unusual too, not just Ooh, it's PLUS FIVE, instead of plus four!!! How about a ring that gives minor resistance to all damage for instance? A cloak of Hide From Undead. Definitely stuff that can't be crafted.

And how about a group chest for storing items you don't want to haul around everywhere, the size of one or two player inventories? This could be accessible in various key locations, not just in the starting town.
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