KotC 2 Update

Here's the place to talk about the features you would like to see in a sequel to KotC.

Re: Update

Postby SkeleTony » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:17 am

I did a bunch of new graphics for the last version of Helherron(2.04). Mostly PC icons...a few trolls, some orcs, some lizardmen, a dwarf(with two axes), some halflings, elves, etc. and also some new race and class 'information' pics(the new Shaman class, a new troll and orc etc.) for the character creation screens, as well as a bunch of new terrain icons and a few monsters and a bunch of new NPCs. I also did that rushed(and kind of messed up) title/splash screen(had like a few days to do the whole thing).
Unfortunately the last version was plagued by some almost game-breaking bugs(for which there were workarounds but no patches, save for the bug preventing you from entering one of the coolest dungeons...Tiki's island, for which there was no apparent workaround). Still the game remains one of the most tactically satisfying RPGs ever. Was better than Nahlakh in many ways.
Of course I disagree with you about 4 PC vs. 8 PC parties. I find 4 person parties in RPGs to be kind of boring and battles even MORE long and drawn out than with 8 person parties where it is easier to dispose of massive hordes of enemies without having to grind/stall/reload etc. I think this is mostly a cosmetic/aesthetic issue though. I prefer being able to try out many if not all possible character builds in one go rather than having to replay the game many times or be overly broad in my character development(i.e. your "thief" must also be a "tank" and/or your "mage" must also be an "archer" or some such in 4 P.C. party-based games).
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Re: Update

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Re: Update

Postby screeg » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:30 am

Did you work with Antonin(sp?) Kuukka?! Helherron is one of my favourite TB strategy games of all time. I have long dreamed of creating an isometric TB pirate RPG based on the game mechanics of Helherron and Pirates of the Western Sea. I'm forever talking up Helherron and trying to get TB fans to play it. Kuukka really created something special with that game and frankly the bugs are few and far between considering the scores of hours of gameplay. It's a great example of AAA gameplay.
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Re: Update

Postby SkeleTony » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:50 pm

screeg wrote:Did you work with Antonin(sp?) Kuukka?! Helherron is one of my favourite TB strategy games of all time. I have long dreamed of creating an isometric TB pirate RPG based on the game mechanics of Helherron and Pirates of the Western Sea. I'm forever talking up Helherron and trying to get TB fans to play it. Kuukka really created something special with that game and frankly the bugs are few and far between considering the scores of hours of gameplay. It's a great example of AAA gameplay.



Yeah Antti decided to go become a Buddhist monk or some such last time I talked with him. But I am not sure you played the 2.04 version(or else you played it on Linux?) because that version was so bug-addled that for a lot of people it was unplayable. But I agree with you about the greatness of Helherron. If he had decided to stick with it long enough to iron out the bugs and allow me to do some more graphics then it is hard to imagine how great that game would have become.

I have an old, old web page still up on the net where you can download more custom Helherron icons(as well as a program called "Obfuscator" written/programmed by a guy named "Munoz" IIRC. The program allows you to edit the Helherron dialogs to correct the 'Engrish'). The page is located here at http://skeletony.biz.ly/My_Helherron.html
There is also a connected page of custom graphics for POWS and Natuk but that it very old and I have improved and new icons hosted at a new(pay) site. The best way to access those is to go to Tom Proudfoot's site, navigate to the Natuk or "Unfinished Projects"/Pows forum and scroll down to my posts.

There are many ways in which I believe Helherron surpassed Nahlakh/Natuk/POWS(the magic system is better for starters) but I love all these games. I am afraid we will never see the like of them again.
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Re: Update

Postby chrisg » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:15 pm

I'm probably in the minority, but I think the graphics and music are fine the way they are. The "old school" feel is part of the game's charm.

A module-maker/editor is what I'd put my effort into. Turn the engine lose on the community, but otherwise keep it the way it is. It'd be a shame to discard so much hard work, when it's totally viable as a game platform.

I'd also second the poster who said he likes the game because it runs on a netbook. Same here. Less is more!
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Re: Update

Postby Dorateen » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:52 pm

chrisg wrote:I'm probably in the minority, but I think the graphics and music are fine the way they are. The "old school" feel is part of the game's charm.


Heh, I am one of those people who would agree with you!

What I'm looking forward to is being able to play a real dwarf in the party, and having a real elf in the party as well. Even using the graphic sprites that were the NPCs would be great.

I loved the soundtrack, too.
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Re: Update

Postby screeg » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:22 am

I don't have any complaint about the graphics, but keep in mind that better graphics means a larger customer base which means more money for BS which means more games, so here's to better graphics!
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Re: Update

Postby chrisg » Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:43 am

I don't know that better graphics mean more customers. Maybe that's true. But I know that if KotC2 comes out in six months rather than in a couple of years, that's more money for BS.

To paraphrase: "An imperfect game today is better than a perfect game tomorrow."

Also, I can't wait to make my own mods. :)
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Re: Update

Postby VentilatorOfDoom » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:01 pm

chrisg is right.
Also I somehow doubt you'll get to increase the customer base by improving the grafix. Unless you improve them to the level of current nextgen offerings which is not very likely eh? Assume you really improve the grafix to the level of the IE games or even ToEE - which would be very expensive with all the necessary artwork - the majority of gamers would still say it looks like shit. I think it's a better plan to release games more frequently and to work on the completition of the ruleset (classes, spells, races and so on) and on the grafix step by step.
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Re: Update

Postby BlueSalamander » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:18 pm

I think it will be the programming that will take the most time, because there's a lot I want to add or change, and because I'm planning to go straight top-down without walk animations. A bit like the following picture (of Maptool). I think high resolution + no walk animations is a good compromise between good looks and simplicity for the artist and programmer. It means lots of monsters can be added easily, even very big ones.

Image
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Re: Update

Postby MonkeyLancer » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:18 am

If you are looking for someone in a couple years to assist with animation, as of January I've gone back to school to take classic animation ( and maybe computer animation in my fourth year) to supplement my fine arts degree. I just wanted to throw that out there, not that I'd find walking animations absolutely mandatory.
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