Fantasy World Engine initial design feedback

[BlueSalamander]

Thank you for all the suggestions.

I disagree with damage being less important than to-hit chance.

Yes, this is debatable. In my mind I have the image of the battle with the first Green Dragon in KotC 1, and the battle with the Spider Queen and the other spiders. In both fights you could help things using magic arrows, but you would have to overcome their high AC. When you're using a Sleep or Slaying Arrow, you need to hit, not do a lot of damage. You're right also that the effect of weapon enchantments reduce the importance of 4 extra damage points.

it seems strange to me that a fighter would do so much more damage unaltered.

At the cost of four feats to gain the specializations and focuses, plus another three to get Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot. The ranger only needs to take one weapon focus, and Point Blank Shot (that too is not really required for him).
That being said, I have no problem with your suggestion:
Archery 1: +1 to attack rolls and damage rolls on all ranged attacks
Archery 2: +2 to attack rolls and damage rolls on all ranged attacks
And there could be another ranger-only feat to completely equalise the fighter and ranger in terms of damage:
Powerful Shot: +2 to damage rolls on ranged attacks.

The 2nd level Druid spell, Heat and Freeze armor seems far too powerful to me.

The target is allowed to remove its armour, though. Once it's removed no more damage is applied. Also, it's damage over time. At low levels, enemies can often be killed in one or two blows, making damage over time not very relevant. But I'm fine with changing the damage to d4s.

Also, the Psionicist 1st level power Dissipating touch is superior to the 2nd level Dissolving touch in every possible way. Is this an oversight, or is the Dissipating touch description lacking somehow?

I didn't really think about this, just took it straight from the standard power list. Anyway, getting Dissipating Touch to deal 4d6 damage would require a PP expense of 1+3=4 while Dissolving Touch requires only 3 PP. And Dissolving is acid damage, meaning that it would be particularly useful against enemies with acid vulnerability.

This time posting under the influence of a looping Riders of Doom

I love the Conan soundtrack.

a Quest reward could have you wind up struck equipping a Cursed item that granted some manner of unique boon/feat alongside some malus aspects.

Yes, Cursed item is an interesting plot idea. But, beyond granting standard bonuses, I don't know what unique feat could be given. I agree that it would be great if there was a huge catalogue of feats, both standard and quest types. But we have to be realistic, the game is already a huge project, I don't want to make it any bigger at this point. So, cursed items: a good idea - granting extraordinary feats: not likely to happen.

Otherwise, have I got it totally wrong and a Barb functionally starts with Basic proficiency for 4 weapon groups plus Simple and from there you elect which to actually specialize in? If THAT is the case, then getting to pick said block grouping would also then be swell.

You get Simple Weapons proficiency. Then:
You pick your first selectable proficiency out of the 13 remaining groups
Then you pick your second selectable proficiency out of the 12 remaining groups
Then your third out of 11. Then your last out of 10. That's it. In all you have five groups that you're proficient with.

another possibility for a feat would be a riff on the Fighter's Survival series where it doesn't extend your Death threshold per se, but your Consciousness threshold so you are harder than usual to bring down to helpless/Coup range and whatnot----"The Justiciar fights until Death itself takes them, the focus on seeing it finished not letting anything short of their own destruction stay their blades"...or something.

Interesting. I'll have to think about this.

-Good deal on the Trip, and this can go different ways too. Such a Trip could deal with Reflex saves, Such an aimed Bull-Rush in similar straits a Strength roll instead----unorthodox crowd control of sorts for the unorthodox combatant in a land of Spells and Swords-

It makes even more sense with Bull Rush, when bull rushing someone into someone else. Not sure about the details though. It's simpler to just say 'you can't bullrush because the target square is occupied'. Concerning Sunder I will take a very simple approach, a successful sunder reduces the target's AC by one until the end of the fight. Some enemies will be able to destroy a piece of your equipment/armour/weapon.

I would personally like if the Bard had more bizarre and curious musical abilities, probably in the form of bard spells. Like some sort of Horror Harmonica that causes foes to become afraid(Cower/shaken, perhaps some other condition as well, like fatigued/exhausted or slow/blind).

It's what Cursed Dirge does, in essence. Blind, Slow, Exhausted and Cowering are a bit too powerful for the Bard in my opinion.

[getter77]

-In terms of unique/nifty feats, well, there's always the matter of filling in things that fit within the nitty gritty that would get lost in a sea at creation----a ton of available feats at creation could easily overwhelm more folk than endear, plus a ton of time scrolling around probably has better things to be spent on. Engine wise, I'd think a bumper crop of Feats and such being a thing a future module-thing could incorporate into the main campaign to be a feature that would work well in terms of after the fact since I would hope "KotC 2" to have a long and lively life by itself alongside FWE humming on along with other module adventures entirely.

For random examples for feats that could be worked into items/quests without perhaps exotic doings: You've got the 6 racial attributes prime for modifying one way or another conditional and otherwise. Also, from my early reading, it seemed like there was a fairly larger amount of Spell-like versus Supernatural abilities and such mentioned. It likely won't make a person applaud to get an extra +1 Str, for an especially low-ball example, at creation---but as something that happens along the line from their adventuring from a relevantly interesting quest/situation it would probably come to be appreciated, especially given the way stat rolls will work this time around.

-I now get the Weapon feats at Creation part---it was what I had in mind at the last turn and fits the Fighter Int aspect like a glove.

-With the Bull-rushing example I was thinking it an extension of knocking into Braziers and such---reckoning times where you might be more concerned with doing damage to the initial target while others on a chance at group disruption. But yeah, like everything, it comes down to tweaking and such.

Today really wasn't my day, going to push for the next bits...yet again...tomorrow.

[Tiavals]

I didn't really think about this, just took it straight from the standard power list. Anyway, getting Dissipating Touch to deal 4d6 damage would require a PP expense of 1+3=4 while Dissolving Touch requires only 3 PP. And Dissolving is acid damage, meaning that it would be particularly useful against enemies with acid vulnerability.

The powers aren't much different even on that list, which is somewhat strange. I would argue that Acid damage isn't as good as non-descript damage, since the latter works on anything. Plus, you can invest power points more easily to Dissipating touch, making it more versatile(for 6 power points, you do 6d6 vs 5d6 from dissolving, and it gets better). Though I suppose you wouldn't use Dissipating touch once you get better Powers, but might use Dissolving touch against acid vulnerable foes early on. Actually, the first level power Energy Ray is already better than Dissipating touch(and Dissolving too) in most cases, since there probably aren't too many foes that have a resistance to all of the energy types that it allows(outsiders come to mind as the exception). That's for the Psionicist only though, since Psychic Warrior doesn't get Energy Ray it's okay for the class. The only advantage the touch spells have is they offer no Power Resistance rolls.
How to make things better? I'm not sure. Perhaps there isn't a problem, since they do have their slight advantages. I would think other people should give their opinions about it too.

It's what Cursed Dirge does, in essence. Blind, Slow, Exhausted and Cowering are a bit too powerful for the Bard in my opinion.

Might be. Very hard to say without actually trying a bard out in action. Thematically I like it, however, though game mechanically I don't really have any arguments.


A few questions about some of the powers(supposing you have thought about them this far):
Do spells(or abilities like the druid) and powers(like thicken skin) that give natural armor stack with the natural armor of the mantis and the kobold? For example, the Oak Body spell says it gives a +4 natural armor bonus. Does this mean your natural armor is put to 4, or increases by 4? (for a mantis, would it mean your natural armor would be 14 or 17?) The spell Barkskin says: "Stacks with the natural armor bonus, but not with other natural armor enhancement bonuses." This refers to the Druid's ability, I believe. Would this mean that the natural armor of a mantis, druid or kobold is without a keyword(and thus stacks with other things), while spells and powers don't stack with each other, as they are an "enhancement" bonus?
Also, are the Form of Doom tentacle attacks in addition to everything, even the multiple limbs of a Mantis or two-weapon fighting? Do they do regular damage, where your strength bonus applies, or some sort of non-descript damage that works through DR?

[getter77]

Ranger:

-Conflict with "Ranger automatically has the feat Improved Precise Shot" and the character table showing it does not have access to it until level 9---should probably mention the class level requirement in the description.

-Evasion is kind of an anti-climatic final class feat to get, especially at level 18 leaving the capping of the class at 20 as something of a hollow event. I'd reckon to swap it placement wise with Archery +2 or maybe Improved Careful Shot---but moreso I reckon it needs a better progression of endgame feats towards the fantastical upon max level.

-Glad to see Burning Hands scaling with level, and pretty much all instances of such growth with all relevant magics. More viable options down the line is always better than staring at a blob of utterly obsolete ones.

-Good Magic Arrow variety, though I was suspecting a classical Poisonous Arrow in there somewhere.

Sideline: With respect to Summons and their CR, what kind of CR range is the game intended to have? It could go either way depending, as even an Augment Summoning feat won't effect much beyond Elementals in terms of late game effectiveness if the CR Range gets really out there...


Druid:

-Lack of Abilities more or less squares with me given the Caster-quantity and variety of spells, but the lack of Feats is kind of jarring---and just the same Natural Armor feat repeating in increments is rather stark. Strongly recommend some Environmental feats, maybe ones that add Circumstance bonuses on the given terrain type, better attunement to any weather effects perhaps, as well as other such thematically sound passives as Activation Abilities/Feats would seem a bit much given all the Spells. Death Knight is in a much better place now and I reckon the Druid is prime for similar flavour-injecting.

-Shillelagh: With respect to the increase in weapon size category, I trust this somehow still holds true when used by a Half-Giant and larger? Offhand, I'm not even sure what adjective that would work out to be, but it certainly sounds interesting!

-Heat and Freeze armour is certainly nifty, rather powerful perhaps, but nifty still.

-Fan of Produce Flame, Call Lightning(storm), and Babau Slime.

-Flame Strike: Typo for only 1d6 points of damage and/or no scaling? 1d6 would be incredibly weak for that level and would make the fire/divine split damage odd indeed. 1d6 per caster level might be what was moreso intended...

Sideline: While Water Breathing is interesting that that it forecasts a new element of explorations and whatnot, I can't help but be concerned on the implications of having a party that does not have access to the spell----even with not knowing the max party size one would hope not to force the classic railroading of "You can have any party you want, so long as you give a slot for somebody to cast X" If an NPC can cast it on a party for a fee/as a quest reward, that'd handle it.

-Wall Spells will certainly add to the mix.


Paladin:

-Needs Class-Feats not unlike other prior examples, though the below ties into that heavily. Especially given that the character is essentially becoming an Avatar of a God come level cap, Supernatural ones make the most sense maybe.

-Divine Grace and Aura of Courage could stand to have exactly/roughly the same kind of buffing recently given to the Death Knight---as it just makes sense. Said buffs would also go a long way towards filling out the gains with levels chart as things get rather vanilla come level 5 onward and certainly needs better high level/capping stuff.

-Holy Shield is a clever idea.

-Shield Other Spell would be something I would moreso expect to at least eventually do better than half damage covering with higher character level. Description makes me think moreso of some sort of friendly Symbiotic Link versus a brave Paladin blocking an onslaught bodily for an ally. Seems like there could be some exploits as well unless it is beaten by beaming/crowd attacks and the like. Though on the other hand, it could be a suicidal spell to use in some circumstances at even just 50/50. Hmm..


Cleric:

-Nice list of Domain Power choices. Unlike other instances, those combined with Spells don't leave me wanting regular feats and such. Though, it would be good to have some sort of interesting choice at 20 given an even stronger thematic impetus for so than the Paladin has

-Summon Elemental: Was somehow hoping for an Acid Elemental (Blob/Cube?)

-I like that Magic Stone progresses with the Cleric, but not for the Druid---good flavour.

-Greater Command spell: Does "all creatures" denote the possibility for friendly fire or...?

-Righteous Might: Yet again presuming it works on Half-Giants and such that are already Large and greater?

-Flame Strike: Same issue as with it in the Druid's case above.


More later.

[Tiavals]

Druid:

-Lack of Abilities more or less squares with me given the Caster-quantity and variety of spells, but the lack of Feats is kind of jarring---and just the same Natural Armor feat repeating in increments is rather stark. Strongly recommend some Environmental feats, maybe ones that add Circumstance bonuses on the given terrain type, better attunement to any weather effects perhaps, as well as other such thematically sound passives as Activation Abilities/Feats would seem a bit much given all the Spells. Death Knight is in a much better place now and I reckon the Druid is prime for similar flavour-injecting.

I would suggest that the Druid get Natural Water Breathing as an ability at around level 5-9. It's always on, and acts as the spell. Heck, you could even throw in Fish-Attunement as an ability at some level, which actually gives bonuses to the druid while underwater(like +2 to attack/AC when underwater).
Might work as a druid spell too, perhaps for even the wizard or psionicist.
I also suggest that a druid spell called Water Wall or perhaps Water Bubble be made, which creates a limited underwater zone, hindering and damaging opponents. You could also go so far as to give the druid summoning spells that can summon fish and octopus, which can only move/exist in underwater squares, and be instantly killed if they somehow get out of them.
The druid should be unhindered by natural enviroments, like slime, and roots, perhaps even lava if it exists.

Sideline: While Water Breathing is interesting that that it forecasts a new element of explorations and whatnot, I can't help but be concerned on the implications of having a party that does not have access to the spell----even with not knowing the max party size one would hope not to force the classic railroading of "You can have any party you want, so long as you give a slot for somebody to cast X" If an NPC can cast it on a party for a fee/as a quest reward, that'd handle it.

As I understood it, some battle-grounds will be underwater, or parts of them. For example, there's a pool of water in a room. In the pool, there lives some sort of monster that tries to pull people underwater and grapples them there, to keep them from leaving. Water Breathing would be useful, but not mandatory. Or perhaps a room that fills with water as the battle begins, and the water disappears after 5 rounds. Surely annoying, if it does damage and hinders movement and attacks, but nothing you truly are helpless against.

Cleric
-Nice list of Domain Power choices. Unlike other instances, those combined with Spells don't leave me wanting regular feats and such. Though, it would be good to have some sort of interesting choice at 20 given an even stronger thematic impetus for so than the Paladin has

Perhaps you could choose a Greater Domain at, say, level 13 and another at level 16? Would make thematic sense, and shouldn't be too hard to come up with, or implement. They would certainly spice up the Cleric class, which would be nice, since at the moment it really doesn't have anything "cool" to be gained as the levels go up, merely spells.
Another idea for the cleric could be an "Aspect of Deity", for example, that you could choose a special ability/resistance/attack/power every 5 levels from a large list, or possible you could purchase them as cleric only feats.

-Summon Elemental: Was somehow hoping for an Acid Elemental (Blob/Cube?)

Slimes and oozes need to be in the game. And they should be summonable. The druid is apparently the summoner class, and slimes, oozes, jellies, puddings and whatnot fit very well thematically with the druid. Therefore I suggest that some sort of slime summoning spells be given to the druid.

[getter77]

Rogue:

-Looks to be amply stocked on feats/progression.

-No resistance or recourse to Sleep/Deep Slumber spell?

-Enlarge spell works on those Large size and greater?

-Still can't use the Reduce spell on party members eh? There could probably be interesting times had with some extra-accurate Archers to deliver Proc effects....

-Grease, Stone Body, Chromatic Orb should be rather interesting. Somehow, I feel like there should be an Endgame feat that grants "Chromatic Mastery", letting you pick which effect you go for with a given Orb.

-Nice improvement to Mirror Image over how, say, the Baldue's Gate and Icewind Dale games implemented it.


Wizard:

-Solid assortment of feats/abilities---especially glad to see Improved Touch attacks feat. Though: Spider would seem to be a weak Familiar choice with only a + 1 bonus as would the Improved Spell Resistance feat for only +2. Or is it the case that they boost the inherent Spell Resistance base growth modifier to 6 or 7 + level?

-I see my days of naked Knights getting a Wizard to cast Mage Armor on them are done.

-Excellent flavour for (Greater) Shocking Grasp, Lightning Bolt with respect to the metal armor possibility.

-Gust of Wind able to dissipate Fog Cloud or are those interactions not so much happening instead of Dispel Magic?

-Nice combo potential for Flaming Oil

-Guessing Glitterdust doesn't stack with Faerie Fire?

-Suppress Sword, Disrupt Armor, Mind Breach, Prismatic Spray/Wall, Minute Meteors should be interesting

-Guessing Dominate Person ends the battle if the only one left is the foe that was Dominated? Likewise, guessing you don't get them as a party member should the Caster die that did the Dominating, although that could be rather cool at times I imagine.

-Interposing Hand looks to be rather very powerful, can't decide if it is too crazy or just crazy enough.


Sorcerer:

-Rather very cut and dry it seems. The feats that are there are solid, but predictable---would have expected a "bonus to spell slots" in there with them----as the class DEFINITELY needs some unique Class-feats. Maybe something to do with no Spell Failure chance when using Armor? Inherent Improved Counterspell at high-level? Tough to reckon. The class biography doesn't quite have anything jump out at me, though there surely must be some good ideas out there---perhaps/hopefully things will come to mind once more of the setting/mechanics and such is revealed outside of somebody else coming up with some nice things.

Last classes tomorrow I hope.

[screeg]

I would personally like if the Bard had more bizarre and curious musical abilities, probably in the form of bard spells. Like some sort of Horror Harmonica that causes foes to become afraid(Cower/shaken, perhaps some other condition as well, like fatigued/exhausted or slow/blind). So that the Bard becomes less of a general buffer for the rest of the group, and more a class that can do great things by itself.

I second this. The Bard is one class that I typically cannot stand, first because I find the whole concept of magical music fruity, but second because he seems to do a little bit of everything.

Regarding Clerics and healing, do you think it will be viable to create a party without a Cleric? Traditionally the Cleric is a must-have regardless of how you play, and it definitely was in KotC both because the party was so small and there were so few classes. If I play without a Cleric does that mean I would have to have both a Druid and Paladin to make up for it?

What about a Cheat Death feat for the Death Knight: convert a killing blow to reduced to 1HP, all negative modifiers canceled, once per day? Can't remember if something like this is already available to the Rogue, speaking of which I think it would be a big improvement if your game had Thieves in it instead of Rogues. I always thought the decision to change that class name was some sort of vanilla compromise because of the negative connotations of the word Thief. Also, nostalgia for older times and rulesets, which I think fits with KotC's themes.

[screeg]

I've been reading over the Psionicist/Psychic Warrior classes and I'm pumped. I've been waiting for Psionics to reappear in D&D games since the 80's! One error I noticed at the bottom: there are two bonus feats under Psychic Warrior-only Feats, but each of them is described as being available to either the Psionicist or Psychic Warrior.

Regarding Wizard spells, whatever happened to Spell Breach, and others like it that would allow you to directly negate enemy Spell Resistance? Can we bring it back or would it duplicate something else I'm overlooking?

[Tiavals]

Regarding Wizard spells, whatever happened to Spell Breach, and others like it that would allow you to directly negate enemy Spell Resistance? Can we bring it back or would it duplicate something else I'm overlooking?

5th level wizard spell, Lower Spell and Power Resistance. It's there.

[SkeleTony]

I must say, that while i still have problems with the D20 system(s)(especially things like hit points increasing with levels, armor making you harder to be hit rather than simply reducing damage, the awful 'fire and forget' magic system, 'Barbarians' as a class rather than a race etc.), your new Fantasy World Engine looks like something I will purchase on day one. I like the variety of races and classes you have outlined, the feats, the fact that this will be a 'Scenario construction kit'(ala Blades of Exile/Avernum, Runesword, etc.).

I wish some of the cooler 'Dark' races like orcs and goblins(instead of kobolds) and half-ogres(instead of half-giants who never made any sense to me) and such could have made it in but that is a relatively minor nitpick.

Thumbs up!