The two things I'd most like to see

Here's the place to talk about the features you would like to see in a sequel to KotC.

Re: The two things I'd most like to see

Postby Darthcast » Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:44 pm

"Have to"? No one is making you dispel the prebuffs. If you can cut through stoneskin without needing a Dispell

I have to do it because otherwise I wouldn't stand a chance against tough enemies with prebuffs...
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Re: The two things I'd most like to see

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Re: The two things I'd most like to see

Postby VentilatorOfDoom » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:04 pm

I don't like the dispel mechanics in this game. When it really counts you most likely won't succeed anyway. Did you see the will saves of the tougher opponents? And unfortunately there is no greater dispelling at higher spell level (and thus with better DC). I also missed spells like Breach.
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Re: The two things I'd most like to see

Postby Archangel » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:14 pm

If the Dispel does not work load the game and try again :)
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Re: The two things I'd most like to see

Postby screeg » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:49 pm

Darthcast wrote:Furthermore, I wouldn't say it's more options. It can also be less, because you always have to waste your spell slots for prebuffing.

This is another reason I dislike prebuffing as well.

VentilatorOfDoom wrote:I don't like the dispel mechanics in this game. When it really counts you most likely won't succeed anyway. Did you see the will saves of the tougher opponents? And unfortunately there is no greater dispelling at higher spell level (and thus with better DC). I also missed spells like Breach.

I also miss Breach. What was the last game that had that great spell, BG2? Love to see these defense-stripping spells reinstated in some form.
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Re: The two things I'd most like to see

Postby VentilatorOfDoom » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:53 pm

screeg wrote:What was the last game that had that great spell, BG2?


NWN2, lesser breach, breach, greater breach, mord. disjunction iirc. It's also cool that Breaches do decrease spell resistance. KotC had a lot of high SR creatures, where is Assay Resistance when you need it :-(
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Re: The two things I'd most like to see

Postby Archangel » Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:11 pm

VentilatorOfDoom wrote:
screeg wrote:What was the last game that had that great spell, BG2?


NWN2, lesser breach, breach, greater breach, mord. disjunction iirc. It's also cool that Breaches do decrease spell resistance. KotC had a lot of high SR creatures, where is Assay Resistance when you need it :-(

Having Greater Spell Resistance is standard for PnP where Assay Resistance is not a core spell. Also using summons and spells that ignore SR work. Well summons are not in this game but then buffing your party instead of blasting enemies works as well.
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Re: The two things I'd most like to see

Postby Tiavals » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:24 pm

I believe prebuffs to be a very poor idea, unless severely rationed.

I'm sure those who've played the NWN series know what I'm talking about. Every time you rest you must cast all the spells again, and it really takes the meaning of the spells away, since you'll always have all of them on.

I liked the fact that you couldn't use much anything except Mage Armor in KOTC1, because it made the meaning of the spells so much more higher. It was often a real dilemma on which spell to use as a wizard. Should I shoot a fireball, a web, or perhaps greater heroism?
If I could prebuff, I'd always have Greater Heroism on before a battle, so there wouldn't be nearly as much choice.

Now, I can see another alternative. That you could have a limited amount of spells on outside a battle, say 1 for example. That way you would have to choose carefully whether you'd have stoneskin or deathward or whatever on before the battle, but still be able to enhance your abilities somewhat.

But then again, since you can always load after a battle if you lose, you'd know exactly what kind of enemies you're facing, and simply choose the correct buff for the situation. The enemy uses mainly one kind of attack(physical, mind influencing, death effect, etc)? Just cast the proper anti-spell for it and the battle will be a breeze. If you must cast it in-battle, then at least they'd have a chance to use their ability before being decimated.
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Re: The two things I'd most like to see

Postby Archangel » Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:17 am

Actually without prebuffing many spells are too weak. Many spells are not worth of casting in combat. Heroism is almost never a good option unless you are fighting enemies that are mosty going to be immune to your disable or attack spells.
Without prebuffing many spells are too weak. I would suggest that these spells either be made more powerful or to allow them to work on more targets then just one. Bull's Strength and Heroism are those spells. Both should work on an area and not one target. Since you lose them after that one combat (while in PnP you could have a couple encounters after you cast them once) I do not see a problem of just using one lvl 2 spell slot to give multiple people +4 to Strength. For players this is great as then need to ration their spells for more encounters and for enemies it great so they can have more punch for their only and last combat.
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Re: The two things I'd most like to see

Postby Shamino » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:50 am

As far as prebuffing, I admit I did this all the time in Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale. I would hide in shadows and scout the areas as far as I could, and then stand just out of sight and buff up the whole party if the fight looked difficult. Especially for boss fights,I would guzzle down dozens of potions too before combat. I don't see a problem with it, as long as you're not already in combat. So, I would definitely use prebuffing in KOTC frequently before opening certain doors.

It does not follow that enemies should be prebuffed just because the party can be. Unless the enemies know they have intruders, why would they prebuff beyond a couple of Day duration spells like Mage Armor? It's a question of whether or not they know you're coming. If the enemy know you are coming, from an alarm or a perception check vs noise, then sure they would prebuff if possible. Otherwise, they would not. And note if they hear you just one or two rounds away, that's all the time they have to prebuff! Same for the party. If they get caught surprised, no prebuff for sure.

I would like to see many more support and utility spells and other non damaging spells to be assigned "Move" and "Swift" and even "Free" action costs, and many more to have Day long duration. I think it has already been suggested to make long duration spells just be Day long duration. I like that. They already cost a spell slot. That is enough. Personally, when I only get a few spell slots and can't cast before combat, and they essentially take my whole turn to cast, i rarely cast buff spells during combat (with a few key exceptions from time to time). A whole turn just for a +1 TH? Not worth it when I can do some damage or summon a creature. I would cast it outside of combat though if it lasted long enough for more than one encounter. I like the suggestion made in another post that if they must be cast in combat only, to increase the effectiveness of all the buff spells, and to also increase the number of Mass spells that affect the whole party or all enemies. Maybe it could be a game option to make all non-attack spells become Move actions to cast?

As for multiclassing, it can be very cool and I have made quite a few F/M/T in my time, although that was mainly in old AD&D where there were few classes and no feats really. But in KOTC 2 there are plenty of classes and feat options, and the party size is large enough I don't feel a need for multiclassing - EXCEPT, I would really LOVE to see Prestige Classes or Kits added to the game in some shape or form. I do find that extremely fun for a bit of specialization. I would like to see it implemented as just an extra pool of related class feats you have access to rather than as a multiclass approach, and allowance for extra "Prestige" or "Kit" feat picks or automatic progressions every level on top of the usual feat picks. Maybe even just implemented as class specific spells like the way the Rogue currently works. So, if you choose to take Arcane Archer, then things like Enchant Arrow and Arrow of Death are added to your valid Feat/Spell list. No one else can get these feats/spells. So, really more like a Kit in the AD&D sense, since a few benefits and restrictions might get added to your main class. Pale Master was another favorite of mine! This being said, I wouldn't mind just seeing a bunch of new classes added that are named by the Prestige Classes. So I could just plain be an Arcane Archer or a Pale Master right from the start. Actually, that might be even better :)
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