Bug?

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Re: Bug?

Postby VentilatorOfDoom » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:53 pm

you're right I wouldn't have included an option for the criticals as well.

I can't remember a single time, where I hadn't the opportunity to prevent domination by casting pro evil first. And even if it happens (as rarely as it does) there is a multitude of ways to deal with that situation, from counter-dominate/charm, hold person, hold monster, dance, basically any diableing spell, Dispell, even Slow so that you can outrun your dominated party member, web, entangle whatever. You try to summon a problem where there is none.
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Re: Bug?

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Re: Bug?

Postby Archangel » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:00 pm

VentilatorOfDoom wrote:you're right I wouldn't have included an option for the criticals as well.

I can't remember a single time, where I hadn't the opportunity to prevent domination by casting pro evil first. And even if it happens (as rarely as it does) there is a multitude of ways to deal with that situation, from counter-dominate/charm, hold person, hold monster, dance, basically any diableing spell, Dispell, even Slow so that you can outrun your dominated party member, web, entangle whatever. You try to summon a problem where there is none.

Actually all this you mentioned is just avoiding the real problem. It is like buying a diesel engine for your car so you fill it at the station 100m away (that only sells diesel) instead of one 1000m away.

There are much easier solutions to this, called lets some spells work afterwards, or let Mink Blank be cast out for combat (as it was made in PnP for), or let domination end once other opponents are eliminated. Also killing the person dominating your members stopping the domination would work as well.
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Re: Bug?

Postby BlueSalamander » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:48 pm

There has been another whole thread about the pre-buffing issue already, in the KotC 2 forum. Apart from turn undead, I'm not planning any more large changes to KotC.

Regarding the option for criticals, I wanted it in the next game, that's why I added it and made it available for KotC.

Regarding Mind Blank, I agree that it is less useful than Mass Protection versus Evil, but that's fine. Not all spells are meant to be equal.

Re/ breaking the domination effect when the caster dies, the spell just doesn't work like that. Psionicists will have powers that require them to concentrate in order to maintain the effect, but Wizards can just control or dominate by sending an order like "fight my enemies" to the target. They don't need to concentrate on the target all the time, or even be alive for the effect to work.

The things you suggest are interesting, but they do not represent "a much easier solution" by any means. Changing software is always hard work. The only easy option is not to change anything.
'Say there is a chunk of meat. Pirates will have a banquet and eat it! But heroes will share it with other people. I want all the meat!!' - Luffy in One Piece
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Re: Bug?

Postby Noumenon » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:00 pm

I just finished the game, never cast Mind Blank once. How often would you cast Freedom of Movement if it only worked *before* you got grappled?
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Re: Bug?

Postby Archangel » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:10 pm

Noumenon wrote:I just finished the game, never cast Mind Blank once. How often would you cast Freedom of Movement if it only worked *before* you got grappled?

Exactly, thank you.
Not only that but Freedom od Movement is a lvl 4 spell. Now imagine you had a lvl 1 spell that made you immune to just grappling and could be cast on the whole party. Would you even take Freedom of Movement?

That is how I feel with the Mind Blank vs Mass Prot from Evil issue.
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Re: Bug?

Postby VentilatorOfDoom » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:45 pm

Noumenon wrote:I just finished the game, never cast Mind Blank once. How often would you cast Freedom of Movement if it only worked *before* you got grappled?


ok I can see your point. How often did you suffer from this pressing domination issue btw?
And how is your stand on the questions raised - which Archangel so conviniently ignores - that being buffed all the time with spells like mindblank, deathward etc would have severe ramifications towards the danger posed by a lot of monsters and the general difficulty of the game?

Like narsham wrote:
I don't see how "prep 4 Mind Blanks, enter combat, have prep spells dispelled" makes for a better game.
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Re: Bug?

Postby Noumenon » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:51 pm

Prebuffs definitely wouldn't work -- unless you made the spell personal only.

I did just finish a combat where I ran out of dispel magics and my fighter was still dominated... it's like trying to free someone from a grapple with a Sound Burst, it's unreliable.
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Re: Bug?

Postby VentilatorOfDoom » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:41 pm

Noumenon wrote:Prebuffs definitely wouldn't work -- unless you made the spell personal only.

I did just finish a combat where I ran out of dispel magics and my fighter was still dominated... it's like trying to free someone from a grapple with a Sound Burst, it's unreliable.


I have to concure that I don't like the dispel mechanics. Way to unreliable, also there should be more debuffs. Even just Greater Dispel would be nice, basically the same spell, just with a decent save penalty. Maybe BS adds this spell, I don't think that would be seriously complicated.
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Re: Bug?

Postby Narsham » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:00 pm

On the Mind Blank subject, I'd say just drop the spell from the game. It's massively underpowered without the 24 hour duration. Drop it for a spell like Clenched Fist or Maze.

Most D20 pre-buff spells will be either underpowered or useless in KotC since pre-buffing isn't allowed. But that doesn't mean that allowing pre-buffing is the only fix.
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