Make KotC2 happen

Here's the place to talk about the features you would like to see in a sequel to KotC.

Re: Make KotC2 happen

Postby Waterd103 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:51 pm

I talk frequently with game designers. And the word is that Kickstarter you don't have to be honest. That is if you need 100k you don't have to ask 100k, that is infact counterproductive. You just ask for an amount that will help you. It will also help as marketing tool. That is very important.
Some designers ask for X amount of money when they don't actually need anything, just for marketing, get extra money etc.
I think Kickstarter or similar should be of help to you.
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Re: Make KotC2 happen

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Re: Make KotC2 happen

Postby Asieri » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:58 am

I agree. A concept like Kickstarter might be a huge help.

I don't have any personal experience with it, but I've heard good things from a few friends. Actually their mobile game project would have been impossible without any outside help.

Give it a try.
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Re: Make KotC2 happen

Postby BlueSalamander » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:18 am

Ah, thanks. It's quite incredible the $3mn for DF. I mean the promoter's video is great fun and all, but it doesn't say anything about the game apart from: it's an adventure game, and probably a 2D point and click game. 'Adventure games now live in our dreams, our memories, and Germany' :D
Do people send money just because a video is funny?
W2 sounds like it will be a bit like TOEE in the post-apocalyptic setting. Banner Saga, I don't understand the game's principle.

Double Fine Adventure http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/66710809/double-fine-adventure
Wasteland 2 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2?ref=live
Banner Saga http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stoic/the-banner-saga

100k is just a number off the top of my head. The main expense being to pay programmers a full time wage. £20k is a low wage for a programmer in the UK. Yet that is already $32k. Count two of those and you have an expense of $64k just for one year of work. Count another six months of work plus the cost of art production and you can easily exceed $100k.
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Re: Make KotC2 happen

Postby Grimlorn » Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:18 am

Do it. You have a lot more done than Wasteland 2 or The Banner Saga. The Banner Saga got over 100k and it will probably be a piece of crap.

Present all the stuff about your game and ask for 100k or whatever you need. Factor in that about 10% gets taken out due to fees.

People want turn based party combat games. Get a couple interviews with some online websites to promote the kickstarter. The RPG codex donated over 10k to Wasteland 2. I have no doubt you'd get at least a few thousand, probably 5k+ just from them. You can offer rewards for the kickstarter. Like donate a certain amount of money and get KotC 2. It can function like a preorder system. You can also offer KotC for a smaller donation fee. Whatever you decide. It will definitely get the name out there and generate interest. I'd really try to get it done. You've already developed and distributed KotC. I don't see why an exception can't be made in this case also.
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Re: Make KotC2 happen

Postby Demiath » Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:57 pm

Speaking as someone who have already pledged/donated over $300 to the big Kickstarter projects I care about (Wasteland 2, Double-Fine Adventure and The Banner Saga), I would personally put down a decent amount of money to make a KotC2 happen. A new game roughly similar to KotC but with new and updated features is actually a more attractive proposition to me than all the games I've "invested" in so far. Of course, there's also a big one yet to be revealed (the more or less confirmed Obsidian/Chris Avellone Kickstarter), but chances are that might be more of a Planescape thing which is somewhat less interesting to me....
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Re: Make KotC2 happen

Postby Charles-cgr » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:28 pm

BlueSalamander wrote:100k is just a number off the top of my head. The main expense being to pay programmers a full time wage. £20k is a low wage for a programmer in the UK. Yet that is already $32k. Count two of those and you have an expense of $64k just for one year of work. Count another six months of work plus the cost of art production and you can easily exceed $100k.


I'm surprised by this. Is it a coder you need or an artist? Perhaps both? I was under the impression you'd be doing the coding and hiring artists...
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Re: Make KotC2 happen

Postby Waterd103 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:19 am

I think if you present something with potential, people will donate. Again you don't need to ask for THE REAL NUMBER.

The most you scare me about KOTC2, is your interest in changing the graphics. I know that KOTC has poor graphics, in terms of wow factor (though the magic effects are pretty cool imo). But they work. And that's very important to me.

There are I think, 4 main qualities in the visuals of the game. A) the Wow factor, B) the Art style, C) The technical execution d) the readability. I said many times, that compared to other games, one of the strongest point is the readability. You really know what's going on the screen all time. And that's awesome. The only reason I enjoy rerunning KOTC so many times is the interface and the readability.

"What all this has to do with Kickstarter?"

I fear, based on your comments also that you want to change the graphics to appeal to more mainstream, they may lose readability in order to achieve that. I've seen it happening again and again, when Indie developers try to change his graphics for the better. In many cases increasing the wow factor, along with the technical execution. In many cases losing readability. This also happens in big games (Look at Command and conquer series, really). I think Darksun may have fallen prey of this, but not sure.

Anywhere, i fear that putting your project in Kickstarter may increment the chances you do this, and for KOTC, a game where it's prime strength was , imo, Interface and readability in the visuals. Losing the second is going to be awful.
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Re: Make KotC2 happen

Postby almondblight » Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:10 am

BlueSalamander wrote:Ah, thanks. It's quite incredible the $3mn for DF. I mean the promoter's video is great fun and all, but it doesn't say anything about the game apart from: it's an adventure game, and probably a 2D point and click game. 'Adventure games now live in our dreams, our memories, and Germany' :D
Do people send money just because a video is funny?
W2 sounds like it will be a bit like TOEE in the post-apocalyptic setting. Banner Saga, I don't understand the game's principle.


Double Fine got that kind of money because Tim Schaffer is a big name in the adventure game community, apparently, so there was a ton of buzz about him making a new adventure game. Likewise, Brian Fargo had a lot of name recognition, and Wasteland (and Fallout) carried a lot of weight. Also, Fargo did a PR blitz before hand.

The Banner Saga is a nice looking turn based RPG that is supposed to have influences from King of Dragon Pass. They had announced and did a bit of press shortly before they decided to go kickstarter, which helped a lot, and their animation is pretty appealing to some people (myself included).

If you want to see examples of Kickstarters that didn't do so well, check out these:

Tortured Heart, $1,747 of a $300,000 goal with 29 days to go. They launched with almost no media exposure, set a very high goal, and didn't have much to show for it.

There's also Takedown, wich is at $137,000 of a $200,000 goal, with 45 hours to go. The guy also lacked media exposure and was pretty vague. Also, his Kickstarter is only part of the money he needs, the rest is supposed to come from private investors.

Anyway, if you do decide to go this route, be sure to do lots of interviews and other media events before the Kickstarter begins. Have a clear vision, and have things that you can show people. And shoot for a reasonable goal (you can always go over it, but you can't go under it).

Oh yeah, you could also give away copies of KoTC with one of the tiers. The advantage of being able to give people a game right now would definitely draw attention to any Kickstarter.
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Re: Make KotC2 happen

Postby Waterd103 » Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:34 am

Yes I think the major weapon he has right now is that he has KOTC. like"Here, see what i did alone, because im awesome, imagine what i can do with tons of money!"
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Re: Make KotC2 happen

Postby BlueSalamander » Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:22 am

is it a coder you need or an artist?
At the moment, no one. I'm happy to just go on doing my stuff slowly. However, this thread is about raising money to get KotC2 done quickly. To get it done in less than 2 years I think I would need 2 or 3 full-time programmers/scripters, so that would be me and one or two other people. Because it's mostly about coding.

Anyway, it's not possible. Kickstarter is only for US citizens and the other sites have not matured to the point where it would be interesting for me to try. For a developer it's not only about 'ok let me take some money from my fans for general expenses', it's about making a commitment. That's why the approach of Kickstarter is not too bad. If a project does not raise the full money, each contributor gets his money back.
You want to change the graphics to appeal to more mainstream, they may lose readability in order to achieve that
I think readability is more something that comes from the turn-based and grid-based gameplay and how transparent the game is. For example Heroes III is very 'readable'. You know the area of effect of spells, you know which units are slowed etc. ToEE is a bit harder to read because it doesn't give much information about the enemies like their HP or what spells affects them, and there's no grid so the areas of effect are not so obvious.
Double Fine got that kind of money because Tim Schaffer is a big name in the adventure game community, apparently
Ah, yes. He worked on the Monkey Islands and Maniac Mansions. Talking about adventure games, I played a good one yesterday on Nintendo DS: Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors. It's reminiscent of the film Cube: a group of people locked in a structure full of deadly traps.
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